Sins Past vs. One More Day.

[WebLurker]

The problem is that Peter and Gwen never really had much in terms of relationship. They are never shown as a couple, they never really had fights after they got together, there's not much of banter between them.

Really? Thought they were dating before she died. Heck, it seems like common complaint about pre-"The Night..." Gwen was that she was an annoying girlfriend character.

In this case sliding-time scale might come to the rescue. Everyone assumes that Peter and Gwen had this years long romance, but Peter got into college in Issue #31 and stayed there till he graduated in one of Wolfman's issues, so that's a lot of stuff that happens in a small bottle, so maybe Peter and Gwen's entire romance and relationship was little less than a year, and that Peter missed dates and Gwen said she would wait, and then stuff kept delaying it, then George Stacy died, Peter grew six-arms, had to cover events for the bugle, Gwen went to London...and then in the Savage Land, Jonah accompanied Peter and Gwen...and that kills the mood like nothing else. So maybe Peter didn't really know Gwen very well. Maybe the relationship meant more to Peter for all those missed chances and opportunities than for the time they actually had.

Interesting idea.

It's not other writers. It's Tom Brevoort who is Executive Editor and he is not a writer. He certainly wasn't part of the writing and editorial team in the '70s.

Mea culpa; I should've said something like "the other Marvel employees quoted in the article. I did know that they weren't involved in writing the original story.

And Brevoort is quite inaccurate and incorrect about a number of stuff. Like his Spider-Man Manifesto is kind of hilarious for just how many glaring errors there are.

Think I've heard of that. Have gathered it's a somewhat odd take on certain things.

Marv Wolfman saying that it's left to the readers is more apt and correct. But officially Brevoort is right that since it isn't clear and specified...unlike Sins' Past which openly tells us that Gwen cheated on Peter with Norman (and which Brevoort says is canon)...that it's something they can take-or-leave.

Guess that's that.

Officially Blue is canon. Since Peter is narrating and remembering that...the justification for the loose continuity is that his memory is hazy and its colored by nostalgia. The actual framing device which takes place in the present doesn't contradict or depend on any in-continuity stuff.

Guess that works.

The funny thing is that when the first issue came out...Peter-MJ were still "separated" but by the time the final issue came out, it was a month ahead or behind of JMS' "Doomed Affairs" which brought them back together again (pretty ironic for a title like that). So it could have been set a few years behind like Post-Clone Saga...or it could fit in the JMS era post ASM#50 and Pre-New Avengers.

My head hurts.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Really? Thought they were dating before she died. Heck, it seems like common complaint about pre-"The Night..." Gwen was that she was an annoying girlfriend character.

They were an item officially but we never saw much of them as a couple in terms of interaction, flirtation, chemistry and so on.

What made Gwen annoying was that the story and characters repeatedly told us how flawless and perfect she was. Then she hated Spider-Man and quoted Jameson unironically. Blamed Spider-Man repeatedly for her father's death. The same beats about how Gwen would not accept Peter's double life and yet Peter was in love with her and wanted to propose to her.

She bullied Aunt May and drove her out of the books and yet she wasn't called out for that...

[WebLurker]

They were an item officially but we never saw much of them as a couple in terms of interaction, flirtation, chemistry and so on.

Sounds just my complaints about the Mark Webb movies. Disagree with that if you will, but I think I understand what you're saying.

What made Gwen annoying was that the story and characters repeatedly told us how flawless and perfect she was. Then she hated Spider-Man and quoted Jameson unironically. Blamed Spider-Man repeatedly for her father's death. The same beats about how Gwen would not accept Peter's double life and yet Peter was in love with her and wanted to propose to her.

Sounds like it could've been interesting under the right circumstances. Ultimate did it well. Thing is, I don't think the old comics were much for character extrapolation. Case in point, the original stuff had Peter's aunt hate Spider-Man, which is a clever dynamic, but it's never really explained why; she just does. Ultimate did the same, but not only explained why in a logical manner, but did it in a way that fleshed out the character more and made it more then just a plot device.

She bullied Aunt May and drove her out of the books and yet she wasn't called out for that...

Don't think I've read those yet; the Epic Collections are still not very complete on those stories.

[Lasil]

You can ignore Sins Past but you can't ignore OMD.

[Zeitgeist]

OMD at least had a motive/mandate behind it. Sins Past was just a head-to-toe terrible story for no purpose at all.

[Kevinroc]

OMD at least had a motive/mandate behind it. Sins Past was just a head-to-toe terrible story for no purpose at all.

The same kind of thought process that gave birth to The Night Gwen Stacy Died also gave us One More Day. So, you know, maybe "motive/mandate" ain't all it's cracked up to be...

(SP throws Gwen Stacy under the bus to tell its story. OMD throws the entire Marvel Universe under the bus to tell its story.)

[Lee]

OMD throws the entire Marvel Universe under the bus to tell its story.

How did it negatively impact X-Men?

[Kevinroc]

How did it negatively impact X-Men?

Did the X-Men just forget that Elixir existed? Or did they choose not to have him help Aunt May because "**** Spider-Man"?

[Celgress]

How did it negatively impact X-Men?

Yeah, I don't understand this statement either. While OMD adversely affected Spider-Man and his supporting cast I think saying it negatively impacted the entire Marvel 616 Universe is a stretch.

[Kevinroc]

Yeah, I don't understand this statement either. While OMD adversely affected Spider-Man and his supporting cast I think saying it negatively impacted the entire Marvel 616 Universe is a stretch.

The second issue of the story, when Dr. Strange uses his magic to warp Peter to various other heroes and villains who can do nothing for May, was totally and completely unnecessary, and it completely ruins the story.

The idea of "sometimes our heroes can't do anything" can make for a powerful story. It's what gives "The Death of Captain Marvel" its power. But this idea is completely undercut by "and then Mephisto shows up and solves the problem with his demon magic."

Dr. Doom is one of the characters Spider-Man asks for help. Doom is a petty vindictive man whose main motivation in life is one-upping Reed Richards (who was also somebody that Spider-Man asked for help at the same time). To the point that Doom delivered Reed's daughter safely simply because Reed could not. But he could do nothing about this problem. Right... Whatever you say, Marvel...

[Celgress]

I do agree this was abysmal storytelling, which is why, IMO, OMD is far worse than Sins Past.

[Lee]

Did the X-Men just forget that Elixir existed? Or did they choose not to have him help Aunt May because "**** Spider-Man"?

Did that ruin X-Men? Did it impact the storylines in X-Men comics?

[Miles To Go]

If you ask fans, X-Men was ruined when Claremont left or when they killed Jean Grey off back in 2004. I for one thought the series should have stopped after "Fatal Attractions"

[Mister Mets]

If you ask fans, X-Men was ruined when Claremont left or when they killed Jean Grey off back in 2004. I for one thought the series should have stopped after "Fatal Attractions"

Depends on the fans. I remember reading an article from a 1980s magazine suggesting the International X-Men took a wrong turn with all the stories about the X-Men wandering into situations rather than taking a more proactive stand.

[Kevinroc]

Did that ruin X-Men? Did it impact the storylines in X-Men comics?

Beast didn't have a few... good years after OMD.