Reinvigorating Superman

[Lasil]

My Aquaman comparison went in a different than I wanted so this thread will be more direct.

Superman is not as popular as he used to be. There's no question about that. There was a time when you could ask any child who their favorite superhero was and Superman was guaranteed to be in the top 3. Today, things are different.

How did Superman's popularity diminish and what can be done to reinvigorate the character?

My solution is to go back to what worked best, the original formula by Siegel & Shuster combined with the imagination of the Silver Age, but I want to know what you'll think.

[Vordan]

Morrison tried that with the New 52. He did a great job imo but no one after him could measure up at least sales-wise.

Also weren’t you saying in the other thread that comics are niche? Any rejuvenation in Supes popularity has to come from outside media then. He had two animated movies recently that performed well. If we could get a Zack Snyder-less movie then maybe he’d see success on the big screen.

[titansupes]

Superman's popularity has diminished (which isn't to say he still isn't one of the most popular and iconic characters in the history of fiction, he undeniably is) because of a lack of QUALITY content in the mainstream (SIII, IV, MoS, BvS etc) and people spreading the love to other heroes finally entering the mainstream.

The solution is simple-- If the boneheads in charge stop listening to the wrong voices, the core fanbase stops panicking at every "setback", and everyone embraces him for what he is, rather than trying to "fix" him by listening to the stupidity of "He's too nice, he's too powerful, he's not relatable, he needs to be darker" etc.

The fact of the matter is, all the most popular and well-received versions of him have been the charming, happy, bright and energetic ones. Not the broody, edgy reinventions. Look at STM, SII, All-Star, Hoechlin well received, as opposed to the failures of the New 52, Earth One and unfortunately Cavill. Put THAT bright Superman in an unapologetic, WELL-MADE and energetic modern movie (Which he hasn't had for SO long) and things will happen.

Hopefully both WB and DC have learned their lessons with the success of Rebirth, and their last minute course-correction to trying to get make Cavill into something like that with Justice League-- and people responded to it! But it was too little too late, and hampered by some bizarre CGI and wrapped in a bloody awful movie once again.

Stop trying to darken him up. He's not meant to be dark. Stop trying to make him relatable, he IS relatable. Stop trying to weaken him. He's powerful, and only as invincible as Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Wonder Woman and Aquaman... Hell, even John McClane, Ethan Hunt and James Bond etc... Because that's how fictional heroes work.

Give him a TOUCH of the Golden Age attitude, some Silver Age zaniness, some of his Bronze Age nuance, wrap him in quality film-making. Done.

[Vordan]

And ffs use someone OTHER THAN LEX OR ZOD! Use Brainiac or Mongul or whoever but NOT Lex or Zod.

[Lasil]

[QUOTE=Vordan;4182002]Morrison tried that with the New 52. He did a great job imo but no one after him could measure up at least sales-wise.

Also weren’t you saying in the other thread that comics are niche? Any rejuvenation in Supes popularity has to come from outside media then. He had two animated movies recently that performed well. If we could get a Zack Snyder-less movie then maybe he’d see success on the big screen.[/QUOT E]

IMO the New 52 lacked the charm of Siegel & Shuster's stories.

[Soubhagya]

So, that was the point of that thread.

A direct question goes a long way. It has to come from another medium. As much as i enjoy the Superman comics right now, you can't experiment much. There is always a pull to the status quo. Its not unique to Superman. But its stronger with Superman as Superman has tasted success since day one. And he has been like that for 80 years while seeing ups and downs along the way.

The other way is alternate universe, out of continuity stories. If someone can come up with something like Dark Knight Returns it will affect others. Superman comics aren't really masterpieces. Apart from a couple like All Star you will find it hard to see genuine classics. Before All Star some people used to say that Alan Moore's Supreme is the best Superman story.

Perhaps, Superman can never be the top dog. The world is becoming more and more jaded. Superman is not that kind of character. If you try to reinvent him you risk the displeasure of fans of previous versions. You have to hit the ground running so that you quickly get the goodwill of newer fans. Its an extremely difficult task.

Getting over Superman's death and origin might help.

[The World]

People have been asking how to fix Superman for the longest time, the guy is basically a ball of scar tissue from all the overhauls he keeps getting. I will say that when I compare Superman to most other characters there is a lack of deference for his roots in a way that doesn't exist in a lot of other characters. The Golden Age needs to become paramount in understanding the character, he should be busting his ass 110% to make the world a better place.

I think part of the reason a relatively simplistic character like Goku is able to hold popularity is because he understands himself, same thing with Luffy. People say that Superman needs to be charming but honestly that's a quality cult leaders, tv personalities, and politicians covet; Supes is suppose to just be a modern day Hercules that's ready throw down with evil. He doesn't need to be charming just honest about what he is. No more farmer, no more Norman McRegularguy, no more wanting to be human. Just get out there and do actual good, stop a war, rough up some thugs and don't apologize if he's rough, stop apologizing in general. Get back to those Golden Age sensibilities and then you can add in other stuff but the Golden Age (38-53 or so) should constitute 80% or so of who he is.

[kingaliencracker]

I feel ranking a character's popularity is pointless, especially with a well-established character such as Superman.

Superman isn't going anywhere. Conversely, he is unlikely to surpass the likes of Batman, Spider-Man, or the MCU in terms of popularity again. Superman is either a character you like or you don't, and there are plenty of outlets and available media to enjoy the character if the current DC run isn't doing it for you.

[Sacred Knight]

Honest answer is I have no clue. I know what I'd like to see the character go back to. But I certainly have no reason to go and guarantee that it would have the wide effect of reinvigorating him on a long-term level. I can't claim I have that answer. All I know is that who counts, WB/DC, don't have that answer either and haven't for thirty years.

[Robanker]

Stop basing other multimedia efforts with the character on hypothetical stories on him turning evil (Injustice, potential Red Son film despite the source being great) or dying (I don't have all day for this one) to remind people that Superman himself is interesting, not perverting his core narrative. I'd start there.

Show people your character's cool. It's why I hate when a writer has Lois say "I'm so stupid I couldn't see through the glasses." Don't be self-hating. Build on what makes you great. Think Lois is lame because she couldn't see through the glasses? Have her intrinsically know but unable to prove Clark is Superman because he can get one step ahead of her by using his powers.

Think Superman's corny? The words "I love you" are the most trite, overused utterances in any language but everyone dies to hear them from the right person. Corny isn't bad. Corny can feel pretty great if you're unashamed and have some fun with it.

WB is ashamed of Superman right now and the results are products that are desperately trying to retool him into something more modern without understanding that they're delivering a poor-man's other product. You could spend all day arguing about marketing, video games, movies or whatever you desire, but the argument begins and ends with whoever is funding projects that seem to think Superman is broken and needs fixing. You're never going to convince someone that Superman is worth their money by telling them he sucks.

[Lasil]

Jerry Siegel was right, Superman doesn't work without the love triangle.

Man of Steel was a slap in the face to everything Siegel thought Superman should be.

[superduperman]

I think the only way we're going to boost popularity is a good movie. I hate to say this but for Superman to live on the big screen, the DCEU has to die. It hasn't been good for him. A good TV show might do it but even then we're kind of a long ways from the days of things like Lois & Clark having the kind of cultural impact they once did. How many people still watched Smallville after, say, the fourth season? How many people were surprised it was still on the air when it was cancelled? We're to the point of risking oversaturation now. Like Star Trek was in the late nineties. The only thing that ever seems to truly boost sales is a reboot. And even then it doesn't last. Major events like his death, or the marriage, or giving him a kid, all are temporary sales boosters. Krypton is a great show but how many people watch it? And Superman's not even in it!

I also think the comics, to some degree, have too much competition. The MCU is killing it at the box office but how much is that really boosting sales for Marvel books? I think if Superman is to truly have a shelf life, it will have to be off the shelf and it has to be a really good movie. He has an entire rogues gallery that's never been touched. Things like a good cartoon or a video game might help but not to the degree that a movie would. Not everyone plays video games or watches cartoons but everyone goes to the movies.

[Uncanny Mutie]

Also weren’t you saying in the other thread that comics are niche? Any rejuvenation in Supes popularity has to come from outside media then. He had two animated movies recently that performed well. If we could get a Zack Snyder-less movie then maybe he’d see success on the big screen.

This. A cool video game series would also help, like the Arkham games or the PS4 Spider-Man game.

[Osiris-Rex]

Superman's popularity has diminished (which isn't to say he still isn't one of the most popular and iconic characters in the history of fiction, he undeniably is) because of a lack of QUALITY content in the mainstream (SIII, IV, MoS, BvS etc) and people spreading the love to other heroes finally entering the mainstream.

The solution is simple-- If the boneheads in charge stop listening to the wrong voices, the core fanbase stops panicking at every "setback", and everyone embraces him for what he is, rather than trying to "fix" him by listening to the stupidity of "He's too nice, he's too powerful, he's not relatable, he needs to be darker" etc.

The fact of the matter is, all the most popular and well-received versions of him have been the charming, happy, bright and energetic ones. Not the broody, edgy reinventions. Look at STM, SII, All-Star, Hoechlin well received, as opposed to the failures of the New 52, Earth One and unfortunately Cavill. Put THAT bright Superman in an unapologetic, WELL-MADE and energetic modern movie (Which he hasn't had for SO long) and things will happen.

Hopefully both WB and DC have learned their lessons with the success of Rebirth, and their last minute course-correction to trying to get make Cavill into something like that with Justice League-- and people responded to it! But it was too little too late, and hampered by some bizarre CGI and wrapped in a bloody awful movie once again.

Stop trying to darken him up. He's not meant to be dark. Stop trying to make him relatable, he IS relatable. Stop trying to weaken him. He's powerful, and only as invincible as Batman, Spider-Man, Wolverine, Wonder Woman and Aquaman... Hell, even John McClane, Ethan Hunt and James Bond etc... Because that's how fictional heroes work.

Give him a TOUCH of the Golden Age attitude, some Silver Age zaniness, some of his Bronze Age nuance, wrap him in quality film-making. Done.

I think this is the problem. People have lost interest in Superman because they haven't been getting the Superman they want. They are now getting the Superman that appeals to the edgelords and no one wants that Superman but
the edgelords. Bring Superman back to his roots and people will embrace Superman again.

[Vakanai]

A really good movie. That's why Batman and Spider-Man are so popular, the movies, they've had great ones. Add in a solo cartoon series again (sure, Superman had his STAS like Batman had BTAS, but since? Batman had The Batman, Brave and the Bold, Beware the Batman, even if CN kept killing those series) and some really good games that can compete with the Arkham series. So, a better live action movie (get Snyder out), a cartoon series somewhere besides CN that kids will watch (do children even watch streaming services? Shame WB can't use Nickelodeon or Disney), and good videogames. This is what is needed, nothing done in comics will ever make a dent.