Reinvigorating Superman

[Ascended]

There's a lot of reasons why Clark isn't as popular as he used to be. More competition, questionable/bad management for the past three decades, cultural shifts, etc. The lack of consistent, regular adaptations in larger media haven't helped either. But perhaps the biggest hurdle is Clark's own legend. Everything else is easily rectified, or is just part of the natural ebb and flow and nothing the character can't deal with, hasn't dealt with before, and won't deal with again. But Clark's legend? That's a tough mountain to climb.

People equate Superman with some sort of religious epiphany. He's held to a standard by the public that the character has never met, nor has ever tried to. Clark is a good man, but he's never been this perfect ideal that people try to force on him. And even though the reputation of Superman exceeds anything he's tried to be, he's still held to those expectations to his detriment. I mean, many of the complaints about MoS was that it wasn't "inspiring enough." No one tosses that trite BS at other characters, not to half the extent they weigh Clark down with. Sorry, but you're just supposed to be entertained by Superman. He's supposed to be a cathartic escapist fantasy who tackles the crapstick people and problems we can't actually tackle in real life. You're not supposed to look at him and see the face of god. The public has completely unrealistic expectations for Superman, most of which have almost no reflection in the actual mythos, and that's done more damage than anything because nothing that is even remotely true to the character will match what people think they want from him. And the only way to get past that is to let Superman's legend fail and fade until no one cares anymore, which isn't an option. Hell, at this point Im not even sure if the legend *can* fade that much.

Every person out there has a very strong idea about who and what Superman is. And 95% of those people actually have no idea what or who Superman *really* is. Anything you do is going to piss off most of them.

I don't know if this would serve as a solution and even if it did, it'd be messy. But perhaps it's time to get back to the core values of the character; the champion of the little guy, taking on the corrupt politicians and businessmen who abuse their power. Maybe the solution is less alien invasions and more stories about stuff that actually matters. Sure, lots of people will bitch about it but if, in the interests of being "for everyone," Superman isn't pissing anyone off, he's not inspiring anyone else either.

[Vordan]

Yeah the whole preconceptions people have of Clark have hurt the character. He’s a god, he can’t be hurt by anything except Kryptonite, when Lois dies he goes evil, he’s a good ol’ farmboy who serves the government, he gets his ass kicked by Batman, he has no good villains except Lex and Zod, all that crap.

For all the Snyder fans shilling DCEU Supes as a more “human” Clark, Snyder’s Supes conformed to a lot of the terrible preconceptions people have. Snyder Supes is incredibly dull as a character possessing no real wit or charm and is just a static brick. He’s utterly overpowered to the point that nothing except Kryptonite can hurt him. Getting punched by Zod left no bruises on him. He makes the rest of the JL look useless. Snyder had a chance to really change the way people view Supes and he ******* blew it so bad Supes isn’t going to get another movie for 10 years at the very least.

Not just Snyder though. Grant Morrison gave us a Superman in the New 52 that was what people said they wanted. He was flawed. He made mistakes. Everyone didn’t instantly adore him unconditionally, people hated and feared him for a while. He tackled “real issues” and used his brains as well as his fists. He loved boxing and taught himself how to fight. And DC destroyed him with bad writing and terrible editorial mandates and now we’re back to the guy a few years ago everyone was deriding as boring.

Outside of movies Supes doesn’t have anything. No TV shows. No cartoons, in Weisman’s YJ series Supes is a source of angst for Kon or else wise nonexistent. The DCAMU did a good job with the last two movies but Jesus Christ I’m so sick of Death of Superman stories. And Red Son is going to be awful, especially if Timm is making it, that dude does not understand or respect the character at all. No one even wants to try to make a video game, although seeing how anal even some members of this forum are about how you can’t give Supes a health bar (even though Injustice did it), I can maybe understand that.

But you know what? I don’t care. I really don’t. At this point you have to accept that the years ahead for the character won’t be easy but maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe some time out of the public eye will make people more receptive to the character when he returns. As long as Superman comics continue to be made I as a Superman fan will survive.

[HeroVladimir93]

Yeah the whole preconceptions people have of Clark have hurt the character. He’s a god, he can’t be hurt by anything except Kryptonite, when Lois dies he goes evil, he’s a good ol’ farmboy who serves the government, he gets his ass kicked by Batman, he has no good villains except Lex and Zod, all that crap.

For all the Snyder fans shilling DCEU Supes as a more “human” Clark, Snyder’s Supes conformed to a lot of the terrible preconceptions people have. Snyder Supes is incredibly dull as a character possessing no real wit or charm and is just a static brick. He’s utterly overpowered to the point that nothing except Kryptonite can hurt him. Getting punched by Zod left no bruises on him. He makes the rest of the JL look useless. Snyder had a chance to really change the way people view Supes and he ******* blew it so bad Supes isn’t going to get another movie for 10 years at the very least.

Not just Snyder though. Grant Morrison gave us a Superman in the New 52 that was what people said they wanted. He was flawed. He made mistakes. Everyone didn’t instantly adore him unconditionally, people hated and feared him for a while. He tackled “real issues” and used his brains as well as his fists. He loved boxing and taught himself how to fight. And DC destroyed him with bad writing and terrible editorial mandates and now we’re back to the guy a few years ago everyone was deriding as boring.

Outside of movies Supes doesn’t have anything. No TV shows. No cartoons, in Weisman’s YJ series Supes is a source of angst for Kon or else wise nonexistent. The DCAMU did a good job with the last two movies but Jesus Christ I’m so sick of Death of Superman stories. And Red Son is going to be awful, especially if Timm is making it, that dude does not understand or respect the character at all. No one even wants to try to make a video game, although seeing how anal even some members of this forum are about how you can’t give Supes a health bar (even though Injustice did it), I can maybe understand that.

But you know what? I don’t care. I really don’t. At this point you have to accept that the years ahead for the character won’t be easy but maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe some time out of the public eye will make people more receptive to the character when he returns. As long as Superman comics continue to be made I as a Superman fan will survive.

I want to be a strong fan too, I want to believe I will survive the coming years and that sooner or later, Superman will make his glorious return to the mainstream media, but so far it's not looking good. The new comics have been great and Bendis does know how to write Superman as an individual, Henry Cavill delivered amazing performances in the movies, but so far, Warner and DC have no interest in capitalizing on the fandom's enthusiasm for more Superman material. I get it, Warner and DC need to be profitable in order to survive, and they have earn money in established franchises, like Aquaman and Wonder Woman, so they can focus on newer projects, but you'd think they'd show a lot more respect to the originator of the modern superhero genre. Without Superman, there would be no DC Universe to enjoy and appreciate it.

Superman has been a cultural icon for decades and people are not gonna forget him anytime soon, especially since the superhero genre has hit the mainstream since the early 2000s, but this landscape just gives Warner and DC the perfect opportunity to capitalize on Superman's enduring popularity and announce a big Superman project that will let him return to the mainstream media, like a movie or a TV show. I've enjoyed the DC Extended Universe and Henry is definitely the best Superman actor in the last decade, but for some reason, Warner and DC seem to have gotten cold feet about giving Henry another chance of starring in another movie. The Arrowverse is even worse, as that version of Superman is only used to prop Supergirl up and Tyler Hoechlin, in my opinion, tries to hard to imitate Christopher Reeve instead of leaving his own mark on the character.

This doesn't seem to be a good time to be a Superman fan, but you're right, maybe Warner and DC should push Superman to the sidelines for a while so they can develop a long-term plan for Superman and his community. The biggest victim of this approach, however, would be Henry because he seems to be enthusiastic at playing Superman again and he would certainly be upset if Warner and DC told him that he cannot play Superman anymore simply because they have no idea what to do with the Superman saga. Hopefully, Henry will reach an agreement with Warner and DC and he will play Superman again.

[The World]

TBH I think Superman could use a overhaul on his sense of humor. Modern Supes isn't really a funny person like he once was; people say he has dry wit but that isn't really being funny it's relying on other people to do funny things and then commenting on them. He shouldn't be a quipster which is in vogue but more a devil may care, mischievous prankster. I know people don't like cowardly Clark but I think that iteration of the character went a long way to show that the guy didn't take himself too seriously all the time.

[superduperman]

It really does seem like nobody knows what to do with him. And that's sad. And, yeah, there really doesn't seem to be anything on the horizon. No movies, no TV shows, no cartoons, no video games, nothing. Batman has had god-knows-how-many cartoons this past decade but Superman can't even get one? Yeah, he had a TV show for a decade but even re-runs of that are ruined now because one of the main stars joined a sex cult. The comics alone aren't enough. No matter how good they are. The general public doesn't read comics anymore. And the one comic most available to the public, the Wal-Mart comic, ended up being ruined by scandal also!

[Ascended]

You just gotta take the long view brother. This isn't the first time in history that Clark's been down and out and on the wrong side of management's bias or seen another character surpass him in popularity. Hell, Shazam outsold him in the 40's, practically right out of the gate! Clark survived those other times, he'll survive this too. And really, it only takes one good shot to put things back to right. One moment where someone stumbles on the right chord and people go "Oh sh*t, that's right! I remember why this dude matters!" and you're good to go.

We're not anywhere we haven't been before. And we'll be here again. And we'll endure, just like we always have. For all the problems Superman's legend causes him it also means he'll always endure.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Could be worse, poor Green Lantern only ever got one shot at a movie, one screw up and that franchise was dead on arrival. And to add insult to injury, thanks to Deadpool he’s basically taken Aquaman’s old job as far as being made fun of. At least with Superman he got to have a couple of swings and misses before he got tossed in the rut he’s currently in. And he’s still getting some animated movies going for him. Plus Krypton and the Supergirl shows (not a big fan of the latter but still) exist meaning the brand is still viable. Not saying a little bitterness isn’t understandable but still.

[jimmy]

I think this is the problem. People have lost interest in Superman because they haven't been getting the Superman they want. They are now getting the Superman that appeals to the edgelords and no one wants that Superman but
the edgelords. Bring Superman back to his roots and people will embrace Superman again.

Correct, just adhere to the original script of what Superman was supposed to be all about - and stop all the "kowtowing" to other(heroes) as it is embarrassing, as well as, all the so called "re-tooling" crap trying to make him something he isn't supposed to be. Superman is supposed to be "unbelievable" in the power department - so as the song says, "Let it Be" and stop paying attention to the cries of "Superman is too Over Powered" "not cool" etc...etc...

George Reeves with his slick, cool and smart performance of the - Man of Steel - along with Tommy Carr directing the "Adventures of Superman": especially the first couple of season(s) - until the commercial sponsor stepped in and interfered with overall tone and feel of the show that is - had the character portrayed on the "right on the money"!!

[Ascended]

Correct, just adhere to the original script of what Superman was supposed to be all about

I'd totally welcome a return to the rough and tumble social crusader of the Golden Age. Gods know I loved Morrison's brief foray into that sensibility during the 52. But most people? They have no idea that the "original script" had Clark acting like that. People would lose their **** now to see Clark casually toss some scumbag politician across a room, to land in a hospital with a few broken bones.

But most people expect some kind of super nice guy pacifist who only hits aliens and monsters, all while maintaining some kind of space jesus Messiah complex. I do believe that Clark could be brought back into a more progressive, socially involved stance, but it'd cause a lot of grumbling by people who dont know the character or the history (and plenty who do) and DC doesn't have the stones to weather the storm. At the first sign of turbulence, they bail and over-correct.

[DochaDocha]

You could make a legitimate argument that it's worse now for Superman than it has been since the 1940's.

The public has never been more receptive of comic book superheroes than it is today. Aquaman (Aquaman!) can be a billion dollar property. Some mediocre (relative to its closest comps) superhero movie like Black Panther is up for an Academy Award for best picture (though to me a lot of this has to do with its box office return in conjunction with backlash to #OscarsSoWhite, but still...). And yet Superman's franchise fails to blossom where so many similar "products" (for lack of a better term) are raking it in. The comics sales are objectively worse than Superman's heyday, and while I've not been routinely checking Superman sales in the last few years, I believe they're still somewhat pedestrian; that is, not terrible, but nothing to rave about, either.

In short, success is all relative, and when you look at where Superman is now, compared to where he could (should?) be, it looks like the franchise is swinging and missing at a more disappointing rate than ever before.

[superduperman]

What's so frustrating is that he's an easy character to get right but somehow they still can't do it. And it feels like no one wants to. Anything associated with him just feels like it's tacked onto something else. And you could argue this goes as far back as TAS. They didn't really want to do a Superman spinoff, it just felt like the next logical step. Even when they left Superman, they just turned around and did another Batman series only set in the future. Even Supergirl just put Superman in the show because fans demanded it. And then nerfed him as much as possible to make her look good. I think Smallville was the last time anyone put any real effort into a Superman franchise. And even that was supposed to be a Batman series originally. You have a bunch of people at Warners who just plain don't want to work with Superman. I think this is the real problem. MOS was "grim and gritty" because that's what the Nolan Batman movies were. And they wanted to keep doing that but people wanted a Superman movie. Most Superman projects are clearly being made by Batman fans who don't care about Superman.

[Vordan]

What's so frustrating is that he's an easy character to get right but somehow they still can't do it. And it feels like no one wants to. Anything associated with him just feels like it's tacked onto something else. And you could argue this goes as far back as TAS. They didn't really want to do a Superman spinoff, it just felt like the next logical step. Even when they left Superman, they just turned around and did another Batman series only set in the future. Even Supergirl just put Superman in the show because fans demanded it. And then nerfed him as much as possible to make her look good. I think Smallville was the last time anyone put any real effort into a Superman franchise. And even that was supposed to be a Batman series originally. You have a bunch of people at Warners who just plain don't want to work with Superman. I think this is the real problem. MOS was "grim and gritty" because that's what the Nolan Batman movies were. And they wanted to keep doing that but people wanted a Superman movie. Most Superman projects are clearly being made by Batman fans who don't care about Superman.

Yep. That’s the big problem. There aren’t any fans of the character anymore at WB. Rocksteady and WB Montreal don’t like the character so no Superman game. NRS really hate the character and love Batman which is how we got that abortion of a Superman in their edgelord Injustice. Bruce Timm is the biggest Batman fanboy and he and his buddies rule the animation department. The movie side has never understood the character.

[kingaliencracker]

Again, I ask fans why they care so much about a character's popularity, especially in the case of Superman?

Superman comics will never be cancelled.

Superman will continue to appear in DC media.

Superman movies, while likely not coming out regularly, will remain in development and eventually will be made.

Superman has dozens of movies and television shows to his media library, not to mention the thousands and thousands of Superman comics that have been published.

What does it matter if he's popular? As long as he's popular with you, that's all that should matter.

[Vordan]

Again, I ask fans why they care so much about a character's popularity, especially in the case of Superman?

Superman comics will never be cancelled.

Superman will continue to appear in DC media.

Superman movies, while likely not coming out regularly, will remain in development and eventually will be made.

Superman has dozens of movies and television shows to his media library, not to mention the thousands and thousands of Superman comics that have been published.

What does it matter if he's popular? As long as he's popular with you, that's all that should matter.

I’d like a Superman movie that doesn’t star Lex or Zod. I don’t need one but I want one. I’m not going to get one if WB is putting the character on ice for decades.

[kingaliencracker]

I’d like a Superman movie that doesn’t star Lex or Zod. I don’t need one but I want one. I’m not going to get one if WB is putting the character on ice for decades.

We don't know if WB will put Superman on ice for decades or even years. There definitely seems to be some sort of beef between WB and Henry Cavill right now that is preventing a sequel to Man of Steel from happening sooner. But WB has been asking directors if they have an interest in Superman, with James Gunn being the most recent. So that doesn't strike me as a situation where WB is sitting on Superman.

Further, my understanding of the legal battle that had taken place with Superman and the Siegel/Shuster estates was that WB had to have a live-action Superman film in development. Now, I don't know if that has been reversed, but that was part of the reason why we got Man of Steel.