Reinvigorating Superman

[Vordan]

Aquaman was not more popular than Superman for decades though. Yet he just made a billion in a movie that was both lighthearted and heroic. We’re not saying Supes is more popular than Bats. We’re saying he can be a huge success if WB would just treat him right. Instead of boring movies starring Space Jesus sullenly staring at the Earth and wondering if he should save everyone, how about they actually adapt a freaking comic book storyline? Y’know like they did with Aquaman? Like they’re doing with Shazam? I’m not asking for the moon here.

[kingaliencracker]

Here’s the thing though, it’s easy to diss failures as the result of stupidity when we have the benefit of hindsight. I’m not fond of any of the modern Superman movies, but I can see why WB’s decisions might have made sense at the time. Get the guy who made the hit x-men movies to do a Superman that builds on the well loved donner movies. Sounds about right........Get the guy who made 300 and have Nolan produce a gritty Superman reboot in response to the success of the dk trilogy and in an attempt to differentiate from the light hearted MCU. Sound logic there.......Ok that had mixed results, maybe put Batman in the sequel? Oof,..... let’s get the guy who directed the avengers to course correct the Justice League,.......well ****.
Not saying they shouldn’t have taken their time and planned better but it is what it is. You win some, you lose some.
I didn’t know about SR making more than BB, but even if it did, is anyone all that torn up about not getting a follow up to that movie?

Superman Returns made about $16 million more than Batman Begins including International box office. Batman Begins made about $6 million more than Superman Returns at the domestic box office.

But again, Batman Begins was better received by critics and audiences, and still cost less to make than Superman Returns did even taking away the production costs of the previously failed Superman movies that WB chose to factor into Superman Returns' budget (Batman Begins cost $150 million to make, while Superman Returns cost about $200 million according to Singer).

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

I thought superman returns had a rotten tomato score of above 70, i mean it's fresh. A metacrtic had 72%. How is it a critical failure?

I didn’t know that either. Weird how that movie looks like it was actually a modest successful on paper. Maybe it was a mistake to not just make a sequel to that one.

[HeroVladimir93]

I didn’t know that either. Weird how that movie looks like it was actually a modest successful on paper. Maybe it was a mistake to not just make a sequel to that one.

Unfortunately, the movie had backed Superman and his community up in to a corner, at least from a storytelling perspective. Superman had become a parent out of wedlock? How do you make a sequel about that?

[Vordan]

Unfortunately, the movie had backed Superman and his community up in to a corner, at least from a storytelling perspective. Superman had become a parent out of wedlock? How do you make a sequel about that?

It was a bit of a mess no doubt about it.

[manwhohaseverything]

I remember, there were plans for a sequel with Brainiac as the villain. They wanted to add action in the sequal which was missing in the first.

[kingaliencracker]

Aquaman was not more popular than Superman for decades though. Yet he just made a billion in a movie that was both lighthearted and heroic. We’re not saying Supes is more popular than Bats. We’re saying he can be a huge success if WB would just treat him right. Instead of boring movies starring Space Jesus sullenly staring at the Earth and wondering if he should save everyone, how about they actually adapt a freaking comic book storyline? Y’know like they did with Aquaman? Like they’re doing with Shazam? I’m not asking for the moon here.

Aquaman has never been presented to audiences as he was in his film. Neither was Wonder Woman for that matter. I think there was a "new car" factor that helped boast those movies' box office numbers. For all the talk about how much lighter Aquaman was and how that made it better than Man of Steel, their audience scores were almost identical.

I just think fans are overestimating Superman's potential in today's market.

[OpaqueGiraffe17]

Unfortunately, the movie had backed Superman and his community up in to a corner, at least from a storytelling perspective. Superman had become a parent out of wedlock? How do you make a sequel about that?

Oh i would still take any of the Snyder movies over Returns, and I don’t even like those (MOS is ok but seriously flawed). I’m just saying for whatever reason I had a misconception that SR was more of a critical and box office failure than I guess it actually was.

[Vordan]

Aquaman has never been presented to audiences as he was in his film. Neither was Wonder Woman for that matter. I think there was a "new car" factor that helped boast those movies' box office numbers. For all the talk about how much lighter Aquaman was and how that made it better than Man of Steel, their audience scores were almost identical.

I just think fans are overestimating Superman's potential in today's market.

Their RT scores weren’t though. Plus Aquaman didn’t have all the controversy to drag it down like MoS did. I think you’re putting far too much blame on the character and not enough on Zack Snyder.

Also WW didn’t make a billion. You’re not giving Wan enough credit for his success.

[manwhohaseverything]

Aquaman has never been presented to audiences as he was in his film. Neither was Wonder Woman for that matter. I think there was a "new car" factor that helped boast those movies' box office numbers. For all the talk about how much lighter Aquaman was and how that made it better than Man of Steel, their audience scores were almost identical.

I just think fans are overestimating Superman's potential in today's market.

No, offense dude but you are just overestimating the role of "popularity among comic book fans". For, casual movie audiences it doesn't mean anything. They want cool movie witb action and a lot of heart. There hasn't been a superman that had that in ages. And as a symbol and an Icon superman will outlast us all. So i wouldn't be too worried about that just look at "iron giant", "ready player one".. Etc.
Seeing as batman didn't do anything to propel batman v superman or justice league sales even with his great popularity. I can safely say bad adaptations break and make a character in pop culture and mainstream media.Popularity only affects majorly the merchandising .

[Vordan]

No, offense dude but you are just overestimating the role of "popularity among comic book fans". For, casual movie audiences it doesn't mean anything. They want cool movie witb action and a lot of heart. There hasn't been a superman that had that in ages. And as a symbol and an Icon superman will outlast us all. So i wouldn't be too worried about that just look at "iron giant", "ready player one".. Etc.
Seeing as batman didn't do anything to propel batman v superman or justice league sales even with his great popularity. I can safely say bad adaptations break and make a character in pop culture and mainstream media.Popularity only affects majorly the merchandising .

This. BvS should’ve easily made a billion but it didn’t. JL should’ve made a billion but it didn’t. Both of them had Batman in them in a starring role yet fell short of what Nolan Bats made solo. I think it’s clear that the GA did not like Snyder’s version of these characters and that was the reason they failed.

[kingaliencracker]

No, offense dude but you are just overestimating the role of "popularity among comic book fans". For, casual movie audiences it doesn't mean anything. They want cool movie witb action and a lot of heart. There hasn't been a superman that had that in ages. And as a symbol and an Icon superman will outlast us all. So i wouldn't be too worried about that just look at "iron giant", "ready player one".. Etc.
Seeing as batman didn't do anything to propel batman v superman or justice league sales even with his great popularity. I can safely say bad adaptations break and make a character in pop culture and mainstream media.Popularity only affects majorly the merchandising .

I don't think Superman is as popular with comic book fans or movie goers as fans HERE in this thread thinks he is, no. And I don't think that has anything to do with WB or DC, but rather a shift in overall fandom (including comic book and move goers) over the past 30+ years.

I think most die hard Superman fans have a belief otherwise, and I consider myself a die hard Superman fan (I own every single Superman comic book published since 1983, the only character I can stake that claim to, not to mention the 7 Superman tattoos I have, also the only comic book character I can stake that claim to). But the market doesn't support that, at least not recently But again, I go back to my point in that what does Superman's perceived popularity matter to you? We've had 6 live action Superman films, the Superman serials, 4 television shows (5 if you count Supergirl), I couldn't even tell you how many animated shows he's had, and he's been featured in numerous other DC media adaptations. There certainly isn't a lack of Superman compared to other DC properties sans Batman. WB nor DC will ever stop marketing or pushing or developing Superman. He may take a backseat to other DC properties, but he's not going anywhere. So again, why stress about it?

[The World]

I don't know if he can ever be #1 again but Supes definitely has the elements to be competitive though. Wonder Woman has had relatively few multimedia exploits but everytime she gets one it's a success. Batman and Superman have similar amounts of multimedia exposure but Batman is able to maintain a much stronger success to failure rate. I think this is largely because the core of Wonder Woman and Batman have been preserved over the years and Superman's has not.

But what I know is that farmboy isn't the way. We need to get back to the characters golden age roots and use that as the basis for the modern view of the character.

[Vordan]

I don't think Superman is as popular with comic book fans or movie goers as fans HERE in this thread thinks he is, no. And I don't think that has anything to do with WB or DC, but rather a shift in overall fandom (including comic book and move goers) over the past 30+ years.

I think most die hard Superman fans have a belief otherwise, and I consider myself a die hard Superman fan (I own every single Superman comic book published since 1983, the only character I can stake that claim to, not to mention the 7 Superman tattoos I have, also the only comic book character I can stake that claim to). But the market doesn't support that, at least not recently But again, I go back to my point in that what does Superman's perceived popularity matter to you? We've had 6 live action Superman films, the Superman serials, 4 television shows (5 if you count Supergirl), I couldn't even tell you how many animated shows he's had, and he's been featured in numerous other DC media adaptations. There certainly isn't a lack of Superman compared to other DC properties sans Batman. WB nor DC will ever stop marketing or pushing or developing Superman. He may take a backseat to other DC properties, but he's not going anywhere. So again, why stress about it?

Some of us feel like his recent failures have more to do with the creative choices and bureaucracy rather than the character and it’s annoying. To be blunt: I fully believe Supes could make a billion dollars. A big CGI Action-comedy where Supes gets dragged out to Warworld? I think that could be a huge hit. You seem to believe that the problem is more people don’t like the character as a whole rather than them rejecting Snyder’s interpretation which I don’t really agree with. This forum is definitely not representative of the general public, but neither is social media as a whole. Twitter and Facebook live in bubbles.

[kingaliencracker]

I don't know if he can ever be #1 again but Supes definitely has the elements to be competitive though. Wonder Woman has had relatively few multimedia exploits but everytime she gets one it's a success. Batman and Superman have similar amounts of multimedia exposure but Batman is able to maintain a much stronger success to failure rate. I think this is largely because the core of Wonder Woman and Batman have been preserved over the years and Superman's has not.

But what I know is that farmboy isn't the way. We need to get back to the characters golden age roots and use that as the basis for the modern view of the character.

Well, Superman is competitive. Outside of Batman he's still WB's and DC's most used character.

Wonder Woman had a great movie. But her animated feature (which I believe was a better structured film than her live action movie) sold so poorly that it forced WB to cancel all follow up films. Her comics have remained in publication only because DC has to continually publish Wonder Woman comics. Otherwise, her sales at many points in her history would have dictated DC cancel her title. It's not a fluke that she has had very minimal spin off titles, events, or crossovers.

Aquaman had a great movie. But up until that movie he was a joke among comic book fans and had his book canceled how many times?

I love Superman. I am anxiously awaiting a new Superman movie and video game and animated series as everyone else here is. But I also understand where the market has been and I'm very excited that characters like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Captain Marvel (the REAL Captain Marvel) are getting the recognition and due I feel they deserve, even if that's a little bit at the expense of Superman.