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  1. #1
    Incredible Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
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    Default Herald Karate Kid

    Pre-Crisis Karate-Kid empowered as a Herald of Galactus vs:

    1. The Juggernaut w/ Quicksilver's speed.
    2. Thanos, no artifacts.
    3. Sentry, full confidence.
    4. Silver Surfer w/ quantum bands.
    5. Jean Grey Dark Phoenix.
    6. Odin.
    7. Pre-Crisis Superman, Supergirl and Krypto, but protected vs kryptonite & red sun radiation.
    8. Taskmaster w/ the speed force.
    9. Barry Allen, Wally West and Zoom (specify versions you answer for).
    10. Professor Xavier in astral form.

    Separate matches. Not intended to take place in ascending order. Marvel characters are 616 versions.

    Maybe some of these fights are uninteresting, don't know. Answer for any of the above or all of them, as your preference.

  2. #2

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    Which Herald most closely resembles his competency with the power Cosmic?

    Juggernaut gets BFR'd. Thanos and Sentry are probably STILL too durable to get put down, although they are gonna have a hell of a time catching or beating him lol
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  3. #3
    Incredible Member Shai-Hulud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Which Herald most closely resembles his competency with the power Cosmic?
    No idea.

    I was going to say "Air-Walker level" but instead left it open.

    I figured all Heralds get a certain amount of intrinsic competence from their cosmic awareness at the very moment of their empowerment. Unlike, say, mutants at the Xavier Academy they don't exactly seem to require years of training to get up and running. Big purple helmet-heads need to eat and can't wait that long. (This as far as I know.)

    Specify in your answer if this is an issue and what your assumptions are.

    Val is a novice Herald . . . though Heralds seem to have much intrinsic expertise.

    Additionally, Val has so much more training and discipline right from the get-go than any other novice Herald, my guess is the guy's gonna be rockin' without any significant cosmic Danger Room time needed.
    Last edited by Shai-Hulud; 02-14-2019 at 11:58 AM.

  4. #4
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Not all Heralds get the Surfer's speed, soooo....

    And honestly, I'm not at all sold on Thanos or Sentry being too durable. Karate Kid's skill takes an essentially close to normal human body and amps it up to the point where he can shatter the Emerald Eye, make PC-Superman actually feel his hits, dismember people who can tank punches from Post-Crisis Kryptonians (and while he's sick and dying, to boot), etc. Jack that up with the Power Cosmic, granting strength sufficient to duke it out with the Class 100 crowd, and I'm fairly happy with his hitting power being in a range where he can mess up Thanos or the Sentry. Or, heck with it, Juggernaut, thanks to the above coupled with the whole 'find weakness' weirdness that Val demonstrates + Cosmic Awareness.

    The issue with the Sentry is putting him down for keeps.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  5. #5

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    Fair points. Still, Surfer is generally leaps and bounds beyond other Heralds in terms of displayed feats and creativity, so I figured to ask.

    Going off of the Air Walker assumption. That's honestly not bad. Walker punked Thor in his first big fight, including moments where he (briefly) overpowered Mjolnir's various enchantments. He later trapped the FF inside the Baxter building using some sort of molecular shielding.

    Soo... decent cosmic power plus Val's already absurd intuitive genius and discipline will be a hard obstacle to overcome.

    I maintain that Sentry and Thanos are still too tough to be finished but are going to have a particularly hard time getting hold of the guy in retaliation. Probably repeated AoE scorching will do the trick?

    Juggy is gone. The various speedsters in most of their incarnations (including taskmaster) are probably boned. He had the whole "dodge insta death speedforce lightning AFTER it hits me thing" before having the power cosmic after all. Tasky would probably be flummoxed by his skills and certainly couldnt recreate the cosmic stuff.

    Classic Odin is same as Thanos. Zorch. Current seems preeeeetty tame though so im not sure.

    Dark Phoenix is too much as well.

    Wasnt Norrin with the QB's a threat to Galactus?

    Not sure with the others
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  6. #6
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I maintain that Sentry and Thanos are still too tough to be finished but are going to have a particularly hard time getting hold of the guy in retaliation. Probably repeated AoE scorching will do the trick?
    We take a dude who is probably in the area of Captain America, physically. We give him Karate Kid's martial arts. He can now, when sick and dying, sever the arm of a guy who tanks hits from Post-Crisis Supergirl, with nothing but stab of the fingers. He can knock the wind out of PC Superman, make him go 'ooof'. Etc.

    Now make him multiple, multiple orders of magnitude stronger. We're not talking about him being ten times stronger. One hundred times stronger. One thousand times stronger. It's more than that.

    I'm pretty iffy on him NOT being able to seriously rip up Thanos and The Sentry.

    Now, I'm not sold on him being able to take out the Sentry permanently, as dear Bob has that 'come back from being disintegrated' thing going for him.

    But hurt him?

    Unless we're claiming someone orders (plural) of magnitude above planet-busting can't bust up Sentry or Thanos, sure.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    We take a dude who is probably in the area of Captain America, physically. We give him Karate Kid's martial arts. He can now, when sick and dying, sever the arm of a guy who tanks hits from Post-Crisis Supergirl, with nothing but stab of the fingers. He can knock the wind out of PC Superman, make him go 'ooof'. Etc.

    Now make him multiple, multiple orders of magnitude stronger. We're not talking about him being ten times stronger. One hundred times stronger. One thousand times stronger. It's more than that.

    I'm pretty iffy on him NOT being able to seriously rip up Thanos and The Sentry.

    Now, I'm not sold on him being able to take out the Sentry permanently, as dear Bob has that 'come back from being disintegrated' thing going for him.

    But hurt him?

    Unless we're claiming someone orders (plural) of magnitude above planet-busting can't bust up Sentry or Thanos, sure.
    Specifically with Bob I was going under the assumption that he would get his body torn up but it wouldn't have much lasting effect, yeah. Im leery on it even being a 10 count tbh. The dude doesn't really seem to need a proper body. A mass of writhing tentacles works just fine (gross).

    For Thanos, I dunno. If Val can legit dismember dudes impervious to PC Kryptonians than sure. Can Val really hit THAT much harder than PC Supes?
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  8. #8
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Specifically with Bob I was going under the assumption that he would get his body torn up but it wouldn't have much lasting effect, yeah. Im leery on it even being a 10 count tbh. The dude doesn't really seem to need a proper body. A mass of writhing tentacles works just fine (gross).

    For Thanos, I dunno. If Val can legit dismember dudes impervious to PC Kryptonians than sure. Can Val really hit THAT much harder than PC Supes?
    POST-Crisis Supergirl. Not PRE.

    And not impervious. Sharp said ‘tanks’ not ‘no-sells’.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    POST-Crisis Supergirl. Not PRE.

    And not impervious. Sharp said ‘tanks’ not ‘no-sells’.
    Ohhh ok. Thanks for that. Totally read that wrong.

    Yeah, im still not confident that puts Thanos down then. Norrin surfs around in supernova explosions for the fun of it and was casually one shot by a single blast of far weaker oomph than what Thanos waded through.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  10. #10
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    The point here is that we're taking someone who can knock the wind out of PC Superman, break the Emerald Eye, and utterly, casually dismember a dude who shrugs off Post Crisis Supergirl's stuff (when Val is sick and dying). Note: Val breaking the Emerald Eye is kind of a holy-crap moment, even for people like Mon El, Superboy, etc.

    We're then jacking his strength up by five or six orders of magnitude.

    If we figure that ten times Post Crisis Superman's strength is likely in the planet-busting range (just to throw a very wide-range, guesswork math out there, based on the idea that Post Crisis Kryptonians are the big part of a team who help move the planet and such), we're now talking about someone who hits than one thousand to ten thousand times harder than a planet-buster. Edit: Sorry, he hits even harder than that is what I was trying to say.

    I'm preeeeeetty okay with that doing more than giving Thanos a bloody nose.

    Milage, it may vary, etc.
    Last edited by Sharpandpointies; 02-14-2019 at 12:42 PM.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    The point here is that we're taking someone who can knock the wind out of PC Superman, break the Emerald Eye, and utterly, casually dismember a dude who shrugs off Post Crisis Supergirl's stuff (when Val is sick and dying). Note: Val breaking the Emerald Eye is kind of a holy-crap moment, even for people like Mon El, Superboy, etc.

    We're then jacking his strength up by five or six orders of magnitude.

    Considering that ten times Post Crisis Superman's strength is likely in the planet-busting range (just to throw a very wide-range, guesswork math out there, based on the fact that Post Crisis Kryptonians help move the planet and such), we're now talking about someone who hits one thousand to ten thousand times harder than a planet-buster.

    I'm preeeeeetty okay with that doing more than giving Thanos a bloody nose.

    Milage, it may vary, etc.
    I sympathize with the point of view, but board standard is that Thanos can tank a near eternity of Pre Crisis Superman blows and still retaliate. Thats like... functionally months of a casual ftl chain of planets mover pounding on him given the speed gap.

    I dunno. *shrugs*

    Edit: I guess I should ask: just what multiplier would "planet busting" have to undergo to equal supernova level? Kaio Ken x 20?? :P
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 02-14-2019 at 12:47 PM.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  12. #12
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Yes, the board idea is that Thanos can eat enough punishment that he can manage to fire off something that will cripple PC-Superman.

    Chain of Planet-Moving At Faster Than Light Speed sort of strength, while absolutely ridiculous, I don't really feel is on the same level as 'I, with my pinkie, can cause this planet to explode by lightly prodding it', which is kind of where we're getting into when we talk about 'hits harder than 10 000 x stronger than a planet buster' <-- a pretty silly qualifier, I admit, but there it is.

    Buuut, milage, it doth vary. Investment minimal. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Yes, the board idea is that Thanos can eat enough punishment that he can manage to fire off something that will cripple PC-Superman.

    Chain of Planet-Moving At Faster Than Light Speed sort of strength, while absolutely ridiculous, I don't really feel is on the same level as 'I, with my pinkie, can cause this planet to explode by lightly prodding it', which is kind of where we're getting into when we talk about 'hits harder than 10 000 x stronger than a planet buster' <-- a pretty silly qualifier, I admit, but there it is.

    Buuut, milage, it doth vary.
    I can get behind that logic. Besides, with the power Cosmic Val wouldnt even have those crippling weaknesses. He wouldnt be as fast either. But certainly still much faster than Thanos
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Slade1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    I can get behind that logic. Besides, with the power Cosmic Val wouldnt even have those crippling weaknesses. He wouldnt be as fast either. But certainly still much faster than Thanos
    On another thread, we had PC Val as fast as PC Barry. Is that not the case?

  15. #15
    The Tentacle God Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Specifically with Bob I was going under the assumption that he would get his body torn up but it wouldn't have much lasting effect, yeah. Im leery on it even being a 10 count tbh. The dude doesn't really seem to need a proper body. A mass of writhing tentacles works just fine (gross).

    For Thanos, I dunno. If Val can legit dismember dudes impervious to PC Kryptonians than sure. Can Val really hit THAT much harder than PC Supes?
    I'm insulted.
    "... and when the Golden Toad started to sing, there was no turning back." - grampagen (Ochazuke)

    "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

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