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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Masterff View Post
    I wouldnt care much for this, just because I dont see any logic in this storyline, if you think logically:

    a) He says SUPERMAN is the one who has to defeat her:
    WHY not MARTIAN MANHUNTER,FLASH,SUPERGIRL/POWER GIRL,CAPTAIN ATOM,SHAZAM,SPECTRE....?????

    -Martian Manhunter is as strong as she is,has telepathic powers and telekinesis AND in INJUSTICE he almost defeated her, but Superman saved her
    I see many ways in which he could EASILY win against her

    -Flash isnt the obvious choice, but punching her at the Speed of Light hurt her and hurt her more than Superman could, she was once hit by Zoom and she said its stronger. So with his speed he can overpower her..

    -Captain Atom has his strenght, he is very durable and he has the blasts which will hurt/kill her

    -Shazam is very strong,durable and fast-I dont know if she is affected as much by magic

    -Power Girl is because of her age and time who she spent under the yellow sun, the actually most powerful Kryptonian and she has already fought against Wonder Woman

    -Zatanna has almost unlimited Magic Powers...

    b) AND!!!! If Wonder Woman gets evil, WHY!!!! dont put the rest of the League TOGETHER??? Who said its ONE VS ONE????
    a)
    Martian Manhunter is a notorious jobber(even regardless of the fact how inconsistent Injustice is, depending on the versions would an evil WW throw lightning at MMH or use the flames of Hestia before it even comes to a fight) and Flash even more so, Supergirl/Powergirl would lose like always, Shazam is a better counter to Supes and basically stalemates WW if both are in character(aka a bad idea against evil WW), Batman has usually no fast reach on Cpt. Atom and even less on Spectre(who makes around as much sense as to call the Phantom Stranger tbh, also are the last three not even main JL members).But the main reason was that the author(and often enough DC) wanted to portray Supes as the most powerful JL-member.

    b)
    True. Although the last time WW became evil had Hecate turned the whole main JL into vegetables right beforehand and they would have all died(including Supes) in any kind of direct confrontation(Witching Hour WW was rly something where you should indeed better try to call Spectre somehow).
    Last edited by Rightoya; 02-10-2019 at 01:15 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant God View Post
    I say it should have been a bit magical like an amulet that weakens Diana or magical armor that Bruce spent his money finding and infused with modern tech or maybe he makes a deal with one of the Gods (maybe Ares) to have an advantage over Diana if she either turned against humans or the Gods.
    Uhm making a deal with Ares would be in the most timelines like making a deal with Darkseid to take Supes out, aka a very, very bad idea with 100% backfiring guarantee.

  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    One thing is Diana generally has a in a sense has a sixth sense.
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  4. #19
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    To be fair, that is pretty much what did happen in the book, and frankly I always thought Bruce was right.

    In a world of mind-controlling, power-stealing, body-swapping psychopaths, the League's sanctimonious outrage at him a having a PLAN to deal with them losing control was as dumb as toast.
    Oh sure, bats is ALWAYS right because he’s the rational one. He’s the human one with no superpowers. He’s the one who doesn’t trust anyone. God forbid if he ever lost control. Oh no, that would never happen because he has the sheer willpower that would put the entire GL Corp to shame. Even in a world with enhanced soldiers, powerful mages, menacing metas, vengeful gods, angry avatars, mayhem-causing machines, and beasts with the forces of nature behind them, they ALL become helpless and stupified facing down the wrath of a billionaire playboy with psychological issues, prancing around in a nocturnal rodent costume, supported by a utility belt with all the deus-ex machina, contingency, prep time, and plot armor devices you could EVER possibly think of.

    Of course he was right, because when was he ever wrong???
    Last edited by Amazon Swordsman; 02-11-2019 at 01:01 AM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    To be fair, that is pretty much what did happen in the book, and frankly I always thought Bruce was right.

    In a world of mind-controlling, power-stealing, body-swapping psychopaths, the League's sanctimonious outrage at him a having a PLAN to deal with them losing control was as dumb as toast.
    I'll post what I said about this the last time I was in a thread discussing it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Thing is, if Bruce was all about preparing for the League turning on the world, he went about it the wrong way. No one but Bruce knew about these plans until Ra's used them on the League. Bruce keeping his plans a secret not only means the League is screwed when something like that happens, but that he acts unilaterally on when these plans should be put into effect. Not to mention, what would have happened if Bruce died and took the knowledge of these plans with him?

    What Bruce should have done was have it so every police officer was equipped with a Kryptonite gun or vibra-bullet. He'd have sold the anti Wonder Woman nanites and anti- Aquaman gas for military use. He'd have made sure every single Green Lantern underwent whatever procedure he put on Kyle.

    In short, yes Bruce was right that contingencies against the League needed to be taken. He was wrong in trying to police them himself.
    Or as Diana put it.

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Last edited by Agent Z; 02-11-2019 at 02:49 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amazon Swordsman View Post
    Oh sure, bats is ALWAYS right because he’s the rational one. He’s the human one with no superpowers. He’s the one who doesn’t trust anyone. God forbid if he ever lost control. Oh no, that would never happen because he has the sheer willpower that would put the entire GL Corp to shame. Even in a world with enhanced soldiers, powerful mages, menacing metas, vengeful gods, angry avatars, mayhem-causing machines, and beasts with the forces of nature behind them, they ALL become helpless and stupified facing down the wrath of a billionaire playboy with psychological issues, prancing around in a nocturnal rodent costume, supported by a utility belt with all the deus-ex machina, contingency, prep time, and plot armor devices you could EVER possibly think of.

    Of course he was right, because when was he ever wrong???
    This just letting emotion cloud the issue. Just because somebody is an ass most of the time doesn't mean they are automatically wrong.

    Having a plan to deal with renegade JLA members is just common sense. The fact that the Batgod is pain in my rear end does not alter the facts.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    ďThe very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.Ē - the 4th Doctor

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post

    [IMG][/IMG]
    Having a secret plan doesn't do much good if your opponent knows you have a secret plan. If somebody mind controlled Diana they were instantly know Batman had a secret plan to stop her. He loses the advantage of surprise, and maybe the whole planet suffers for it.

    Diana is the one who is written here as being the weak one, which is what I found objectionable. She's letting her personal feelings trump her professional judgement.

    Plus the writer ignores the fact she has gone into battle beside Cheetah and Circe.

    And like Diana, as a trained warrior, is not intently aware of the weaknesses of those around her.

    Poor writing all round.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    ďThe very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.Ē - the 4th Doctor

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Having a secret plan doesn't do much good if your opponent knows you have a secret plan. If somebody mind controlled Diana they were instantly know Batman had a secret plan to stop her. He loses the advantage of surprise, and maybe the whole planet suffers for it.
    You canít counter a plan if you donít know the details of said plan. Plus, even if Bruce isnít going to tell the League about it, letting other people like the rest of the Batclan know wouldnít be a bad idea. Bruce keeping knowledge of these plans to himself and setting himself up as the sole counter to a rogue Justice League ended up screwing everybody over. And as long as weíre looking at hypothetical worse case scenarios, what about the possibility of Batman going rogue and unleashing these contingencies on an unprepared Justice league?

    Diana is the one who is written here as being the weak one, which is what I found objectionable. She's letting her personal feelings trump her professional judgement.
    I think sheís being more rational than youíre giving her credit for. Especially considering she and her friends almost died because of Bruceís carelessness and paranoia.

    Plus the writer ignores the fact she has gone into battle beside Cheetah and Circe.
    Under very special circumstances and in the case of Cheetah, she never actually trusted her.

    And like Diana, as a trained warrior, is not intently aware of the weaknesses of those around her.
    I donít understand what you mean by this.

  9. #24
    Incredible Member Amazon Swordsman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    This just letting emotion cloud the issue. Just because somebody is an ass most of the time doesn't mean they are automatically wrong.

    Having a plan to deal with renegade JLA members is just common sense. The fact that the Batgod is pain in my rear end does not alter the facts.
    You still didn’t answer my question. When has he miscalculated with his contingency plans?

  10. #25
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    The reason I haven't answered is that it has nothing to do with the situation. It doesn't matter how many times he's been right or wrong. In this situation he is clearly correct.

    What is really bizarre is that none of the other members seem to have even considered this.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    ďThe very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.Ē - the 4th Doctor

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    You can’t counter a plan if you don’t know the details of said plan. Plus, even if Bruce isn’t going to tell the League about it, letting other people like the rest of the Batclan know wouldn’t be a bad idea. Bruce keeping knowledge of these plans to himself and setting himself up as the sole counter to a rogue Justice League ended up screwing everybody over. And as long as we’re looking at hypothetical worse case scenarios, what about the possibility of Batman going rogue and unleashing these contingencies on an unprepared Justice league?


    I think she’s being more rational than you’re giving her credit for. Especially considering she and her friends almost died because of Bruce’s carelessness and paranoia.


    Under very special circumstances and in the case of Cheetah, she never actually trusted her.


    I don’t understand what you mean by this.
    Exactly what I said. Diana is a fully trained warrior. Suggesting that she has no awareness of the abilities and limitations of those around her, particularly when we have seen her training others to fight, is just writing her as being willfully ignorant.

    As for nearly dying, we could count up the times that people have nearly died because as League member was mind controlled or otherwise out of control.

    The writing of the Leaguers who voted for expulsion, WW included, is sadly selfish. "I won't fight alongside someone who puts protecting innocent people from me ahead of my own personal feelings."

    The FIRST duty of the Justice League is to protect the innocent, not each other.
    Last edited by brettc1; 02-11-2019 at 07:35 PM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    ďThe very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.Ē - the 4th Doctor

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    Exactly what I said. Diana is a fully trained warrior. Suggesting that she has no awareness of the abilities and limitations of those around her, particularly when we have seen her training others to fight, is just writing her as being willfully ignorant.
    Okay and what about this story suggests she has no awareness of other peoplesí abilities and limitations? Thatís a strange reading of that scene.
    There is a difference between being aware of your team matesí weaknesses and secretly plotting to use those weaknesses against them.

    As for nearly dying, we could count up the times that people have nearly died because as League member was mind controlled or otherwise out of control.
    And I can count up the times someone nearly died because of Bruceís paranoia and refusal to trust his allies. Hell, I can even mention an instant where people actually did die because of Bruceís paranoia Ė Infinite Crisis.

    The writing of the Leaguers who voted for expulsion, WW included, is sadly selfish. "I won't fight alongside someone who puts protecting innocent people from me ahead of my own personal feelings."

    The FIRST duty of the Justice League is to protect the innocent, not each other.
    And theyíre not going to be able to perform that duty if they have to worry about being killed by the carelessness of one of their team mates.
    Diana isnít against the idea of contingencies against the League. Itís the stupid way Bruce went about it that endangered the League and the people they were trying to protect. This wasnít the last time that was an issue either. See Infinite Crisis again were the casualties of Bruceís attempts to be a one-man police force included the Amazons.

  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    When we think about it. Why not have Batman try to steal the lasso from Diana. The Lasso can wrap around the Earth, Sun and many thing no matter the size. Why can't Diana go back also making a plan? She is skilled enough to do so. Zatanna still has to speak backwards for most of her powerful spells to work. Unless that has changed. So she technically can be defeated.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Okay and what about this story suggests she has no awareness of other peoples’ abilities and limitations? That’s a strange reading of that scene.
    There is a difference between being aware of your team mates’ weaknesses and secretly plotting to use those weaknesses against them.


    And I can count up the times someone nearly died because of Bruce’s paranoia and refusal to trust his allies. Hell, I can even mention an instant where people actually did die because of Bruce’s paranoia – Infinite Crisis.


    And they’re not going to be able to perform that duty if they have to worry about being killed by the carelessness of one of their team mates.
    Diana isn’t against the idea of contingencies against the League. It’s the stupid way Bruce went about it that endangered the League and the people they were trying to protect. This wasn’t the last time that was an issue either. See Infinite Crisis again were the casualties of Bruce’s attempts to be a one-man police force included the Amazons.
    The events in INFINITE CRISIS happened AFTER Tower of Babel, so in my mind they have no bearing on the discussion. Except perhaps to further highlight the dangers of a mind controlled Superman.

    The very fact that you agree that Diana must logically be aware of her team mates weaknesses makes my point for me. If Wonder Woman had to fight an evil clone of Flash, she's going to use her knowledge of his limitations against him. That's perfect obvious. The only difference here is that Batman uses his particular skill set rather than superhuman powers and Amazon training.

    You might as get upset with the Amazons having a standing army in case they NEED to fight.

    Historically speaking, people are in more danger of being killed by a possessed team mate than Batman's preparations to protect innocent people.

    Bringing it back to the topic, expecting Batman not to HAVE a plan is like expecting Wonder Woman to throw away her bracelets.
    Last edited by brettc1; 02-12-2019 at 12:20 AM.
    If ten years of recording The Young and the Restless for my mother have taught me anything, it's that characters in serial dramas are always happily in love...until they're not

    ďThe very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. Instead of altering their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views...which can be very uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.Ē - the 4th Doctor

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by brettc1 View Post
    The events in INFINITE CRISIS happened AFTER Tower of Babel, so in my mind they have no bearing on the discussion. Except perhaps to further highlight the dangers of a mind controlled Superman.
    In Tower of Babel, a villain steals Batman’s secret contingencies against superheroes leading to the heroes getting caught off guard because they were unaware these contingencies even existed.
    In Infinite Crisis, Brother Eye, an computer spy network created by Batman goes rogue and kills numerous people and the League is blindsided by this because they didn’t even know Bruce had this thing running.
    I’d say that Bruce’s attempts to single-handedly police the entire superhero community with no oversight or input from anyone else have twice screwed everyone else over is very relevant to this discussion. Again, the issue isn’t about contingencies against the League but how Bruce goes about it and that he thinks he alone should be the one keeping the League in check.


    The very fact that you agree that Diana must logically be aware of her team mates weaknesses makes my point for me. If Wonder Woman had to fight an evil clone of Flash, she's going to use her knowledge of his limitations against him. That's perfect obvious. The only difference here is that Batman uses his particular skill set rather than superhuman powers and Amazon training.
    Bruce’s plans weren’t designed to fight evil clones of the Justice League, they were designed to fight the League themselves.

    You might as get upset with the Amazons having a standing army in case they NEED to fight.
    The difference is the Amazons don’t hide the fact that they have an army in the first place.

    Historically speaking, people are in more danger of being killed by a possessed team mate than Batman's preparations to protect innocent people.
    Could you list those instances? Because right now I can think of way more instances where Bruce’s contingencies ended up getting more people killed than a possessed team mate.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 02-12-2019 at 02:34 AM.

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