The Magicians = the best show on tv not enough people watch

[zinderel]

Can I just...gush for a moment on how much I love the idea of Queliot? I mean, I know it's not 'book canon', but...I just canNOT STAND Quentin and Alice as a couple...

I love Alice as a character, but they are just toxic for one another. Seeing Quentin not only accept but casually embrace his bisexuality in Eliot's flashback to his greatest regret...it was powerful and necessary and right. Who DOES get proof of concept like that!?!

Him settling for Alice is just...disappointing. I absolutely want Alice to be a fully integrated member of the gang, but making her one due to being Q's GF is just...insulting to everyone. She's earned her place through power and through her work with the hedges this season, and I would LOVE her as an friend and beloved ally, but...I want Queliot to be real...

What do we think the odds are, regarding ships once the Monster and his sister are driven out/dealt with?

[90'sCartoonMan]

Also, they decided that turning Alice, the only decent person on the books into the asshole of the tv show was a good idea.

Alice spends a lot of time in the books as a niffin/dead, so I don't really blame the show for wanting to do more with her. Making her an asshole wasn't the only choice, but it fits with the themes of magic coming from pain.

Him settling for Alice is just...disappointing. I absolutely want Alice to be a fully integrated member of the gang, but making her one due to being Q's GF is just...insulting to everyone. She's earned her place through power and through her work with the hedges this season, and I would LOVE her as an friend and beloved ally, but...I want Queliot to be real...

What do we think the odds are, regarding ships once the Monster and his sister are driven out/dealt with?

If anything, I hate Quentin with Poppy. Hated it in the book, hate it on the show. Even though Quentin did end up with that woman and they had a son, I liked the episode last year where Quentin and Elliot spent a lifetime in Fillory working on that mosaic thing. There was some romance there. Not sure where the ships are going after this. More Penny 23 and Julia? Margot and Josh may have more mileage in them than I thought.

[zinderel]

Alice spends a lot of time in the books as a niffin/dead, so I don't really blame the show for wanting to do more with her. Making her an asshole wasn't the only choice, but it fits with the themes of magic coming from pain.

If anything, I hate Quentin with Poppy. Hated it in the book, hate it on the show. Even though Quentin did end up with that woman and they had a son, I liked the episode last year where Quentin and Elliot spent a lifetime in Fillory working on that mosaic thing. There was some romance there. Not sure where the ships are going after this. More Penny 23 and Julia? Margot and Josh may have more mileage in them than I thought.

I remember her being Niffined for much of the books, and how Julia just...isn't in the first book like...at all. And Kady didn't exist in the books, and Margo was Janet...honestly? I like the show waaaaaaay better than the books...I know, I know...heresy!

Oh God, Poppy...I like Felicia Day as much as the next nerd, but God I hate that character! And her appearance this season did NOTHING to lessen that. ESPECIALLY when the preview for her episode made it seem like she was pregnant with Quentin's baby!! Lol.

I am warming to Julia/Penny23, and though Margo/Josh caught me off guard, I like their dynamic and how she let's her guard down - slightly - around Josh the way only Eliot has seen her, before. Margo is probably my favorite character in the show, with her feminized slang and her MASTERY of snark. If it wouldn't cause riots, I would push hard for Summer Bishil as Emma Frost...

All that hard, glossy armor hiding a warm and loving heart...

[Sammael]

Just saw the finale, what a sendoff.

[Uncanny X-Man]

That campfire scene... *sniff*

[zinderel]

I'm...annoyed at this finale. I'll go into more detail when I'm not at school...

EDIT:

So, I am not thrilled with how this season ended. Not because Quentin died. The fireside song was touching and sweet, and Jason Ralph KILLED IT with his expressions and body language and everything. Even his fear that he had just found a way to kill himself made me think of my own battles with suicidal ideation and depression and feelings of inadequacy. What bothered me was how unceremoniously they dropped Queliot after dangling it in our faces. I would say this constitutes 'queer baiting' more than the 'bury your gays' trope I see people talking about in other places.

The first half of the season really played up Quentin's feelings for Eliot, and vice versa. It also made clear that Qualice was OVER, because of Alice's (and yeah, Quentin's) actions and behavior of the last few years, and rightly so. They were a couple in college, but it didn't stand the test of time. Their mutual insecurities and mental baggage - and their tendency to take out those traumas on others around them, especially one another - led to them both making decisions that led to their breakup and falling out. As adults, I was hoping they would find a way to be friends again, but I think we ALL knew that the relationship as we knew it was over.

And then episode 5 showed us not only Eliot's biggest regret - that he rejected Quentin - but also that Quentin embraced possibility and actively chose to try a relationship with Eliot. When rejected, it didn't end him, it didn't destroy him, but his love for Eliot was clear. Their lifetime together had changed something in Q. He...for lack of a better term, had begun growing up. We continued with this thread, that revelation adding depth and pathos to Quentin's quest to free Eliot. He wasn't JUST trying to free a friend, he was trying to free someone he had deeper feelings for, despite the rejection. He wasn't seeking to 'fix' anyone, he just...wanted Eliot back. And he had no way of knowing that Eliot actually reciprocated those feelings, which made Q's efforts to save him even more mature.

And then something shifted. Maybe it was just Jason Ralph telling the producers he was ready to move on. Maybe Jason was uncomfortable with Queliot. Maybe Queliot was ALWAYS meant as a dick tease for unearned queer cred. But suddenly, Qualice became what the writers were pushing, against all logical narrative. Suddenly, Quentin was backsliding into a toxic relationship that was harmful to both parties. Suddenly, instead of moving forward as friends with a complicated past, Quentin and Alice were endgame again. And all the nods to Queliot were dropped with nary a fare thee well.

It felt like a slap in the face, and I expect better from the writers of the show. Between the queer baiting and the stripping of Julia's agency by letting yet another man decide her fate AGAIN...I am not very happy with this season finale, even though it started strong. I will be checking next season out, but...I'm not optimistic.

Man...five days, and my opinions changed so drastically....I still love the show and everything that came before. I just...this finale, man...

[QuinnFillory]

Here is an article explaining why the writers did what they did: https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-magician...and-1834107404

Also, here's an article talking about why this is a mistake: https://www.popsugar.com/entertainme...Wrong-46050057

This is one on what happens in the books: https://www.popsugar.com/entertainme...Books-46052413

And finally, an opinion piece: https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-magician...-me-1834112030

[90'sCartoonMan]

Wow, I certainly didn't expect them to go there! So Ralph isn't coming back? What a send off for Quentin. His minor mending came in handy, and thanks to OG Penny, he was able to see his friends mourn him. I liked that he wondered about his suicidal past.

Margo is probably my favorite character in the show, with her feminized slang and her MASTERY of snark. If it wouldn't cause riots, I would push hard for Summer Bishil as Emma Frost...

She'd be much better than January Jones was.

And then something shifted. Maybe it was just Jason Ralph telling the producers he was ready to move on. Maybe Jason was uncomfortable with Queliot. Maybe Queliot was ALWAYS meant as a dick tease for unearned queer cred. But suddenly, Qualice became what the writers were pushing, against all logical narrative. Suddenly, Quentin was backsliding into a toxic relationship that was harmful to both parties. Suddenly, instead of moving forward as friends with a complicated past, Quentin and Alice were endgame again. And all the nods to Queliot were dropped with nary a fare thee well.

The problem was we got VERY little Elliot this season. Yes, we saw things from Quentin's point of view, how much he cared about getting Elliot back, and the lengths he was willing to go, but there wasn't much on Elliot's end. A lot of screentime these last few episodes was on bringing Quentin and Alice together, to at least mend fences between them before his death.

This is one on what happens in the books: https://www.popsugar.com/entertainme...Books-46052413

I had expected the show to end with Quentin becoming a professor at Brakebills and/or recreating a new Post-Fillory Land. Guess not. And I know the show and the book are two different animals, so there's much more to do. We've got the new ruler of Fillory and the return of Julia's magic and other things to look forward to next season.

[CRaymond]

Lol I’ve suggested Summer Bishil as Barda of Apokolips.

[Sammael]

Did Ralph want to move on or what it really creative decision to have him leave?

I wish He stayed, I was listening to the afterbuzz recap (and remembered why I avoided it due to that killjoy girl sucking the life and happiness and fun out of everything) and heard one of the guys mention the white guy being killed off being undercut because it was also a heroic death... like seriously, wtf.

This stuff should not even be worth worrying about with the magicians, it's not even an all white cast, Penny has stuck around far longer than the books

[zinderel]

Did Ralph want to move on or what it really creative decision to have him leave?

I wish He stayed, I was listening to the afterbuzz recap (and remembered why I avoided it due to that killjoy girl sucking the life and happiness and fun out of everything) and heard one of the guys mention the white guy being killed off being undercut because it was also a heroic death... like seriously, wtf.

This stuff should not even be worth worrying about with the magicians, it's not even an all white cast, Penny has stuck around far longer than the books

From what I've read, Jason Ralph was just ready to go. Apparently he talked to the producers before season 3 even started production, so they knew. They even spoke about it with Lev, and got his thoughts on where the story could go next, since with Quintin's death, we are officially off-book. And Lev, at least according to the article I read, was full of potential ideas for each character. So that gives me a good bit of hope in things to come. I am curious to see where they go now, and where each character's road takes them without the books as a guide. This next season is make or break time for everyone involved.

I'm just still bothered by the Queliot teases (and chemistry between the actors from day one) leading to a big fat whammy, more reinforcement of heteronormativity in a show renowned for being delightfully queer, and more trauma for Eliot (who, y'know...never has any of THAT...) But that's me.

Overall, I still love the show, in large part because of the strength and complexity of the characters. I just...wish different decisions had been made in terms of Quentin's final arc and Julia's return to having almost no say in her own life thanks to the actions of the men in her life...

[Toreador]

I'm going to miss Q but I hope they don't bring in an alternate Quentin from another timeline, I feel that would somehow cheapen his death/sacrifice. I think maybe the Gods should reward Quentin for saving them by making him a demiGod or something and give him some duties that will prevent him from returning or frequently visiting his friends and Alice.

[zinderel]

Lol I’ve suggested Summer Bishil as Barda of Apokolips.

I don't know a lot about Barda. I know she's...a New God? Or a Female Fury? Or both? I am and have always been more of a Marvel guy than a DC guy (just personal preference, not a knock on DC or anything!), so I'm not super familiar with the character. Any pointers to iconic arcs so I can take a look?

[Charmed]

You put it better than I could have, zinderel. That was queerbaiting, but, for some strange reason, I am not upset as I should be. Maybe it's because Quentin is dead (is bury your bisexuals a trope?), so Alice can't have him either. Maybe it's because I'm hoping beyond hope that, if Jason Ralph ever comes back to the show that he shares a scene with Elliot arriving to the afterlife. Or maybe I'm just so used to this stuff that it doesn't really phase me anymore.

Quentin reacting to Elliot being alive was beautiful, but it's going to feel like a punch to the gut anytime Elliot talks about Quentin. Doubly so, if he says that he should have taken Q up on his offer to be a couple. I just have too many feelings right now lol

Either way, I'm here for Margot and Elliot doing awesome things in Fillory.

I've also grown to like Fen and Josh, as well.

I need Marina and her fiancee to pop up and I need the writers to quit jerking Julia around. It's not clever or subversive at this point; it's annoying.

[QuinnFillory]

For those wondering how the death really came about: https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/17/magicia...ale-interview/

and
https://tvline.com/2019/04/17/the-ma...ason-4-finale/

and
https://www.tvguide.com/news/the-mag...oldwater-dead/