I miss the love triangle

[Agent Z]

When did Lois create "superman" in "smallville"? As far as i remember she created "Clark kent" persona. The costume was given to him by martha. And jor el took it later on and put it in his fortress.
Lois created "clark kent" persona from the way she saw him as,initially. Then he just began to confuse the heck out of her.

How did Lois create the Clark Kent persona in Smallville?

[Agent Z]

This.

Lois should never have been made some super-detective who somehow is able to solve mysteries at Batman level. And her inability to see who Superman and Clark really are should be a testament to how good the disguise is, not a knock on her intelligence.

She doesn't need to be a Batman-level detective (not that Batman is much of a detective if you actually think about it). But she should be smart enough to know a pair of glasses are not an efficient disguise. And as I said, the two-person love triangle also made Superman look like as ******* for his repeated gaslighting of a woman he supposedly loved.

[Jon Clark]

She doesn't need to be a Batman-level detective (not that Batman is much of a detective if you actually think about it). But she should be smart enough to know a pair of glasses are not an efficient disguise. And as I said, the two-person love triangle also made Superman look like as ******* for his repeated gaslighting of a woman he supposedly loved.

If they are that weak a disguise then everyone knows. If you don't believe that there is more to the disguise than something Lois immediately sees through then it's not a disguise and the whole thing falls apart.

And when Superman was gaslighting Lois, she was borderline obsessive with discovering his secret. it wasn't like she was any better in those tales. That's why I said I wouldn't want the triangle back if the main focus was on Lois trying to find out the secret.

[stargazer01]

I don't know if I'd ever want to go back to the old love triangle as it was. If they could put a new spin on it, maybe, but I can't think of anything that would do that. I mean, I'd take it over the marriage at this point, but still, my ideal would probably be playing on a status quo where Lois knows Superman is Clark very early on and she's a lone Metropolis confidant, with the obligatory sexual tension.

that could work too. have her know his secret but they aren't still together and in a committed relationship because Clark is worried about her safety. I like this, seems like a new approach. And yes, lots of sexual tension, haha..

Then why not have him just ditch Clark Kent entirely and go with the Truth set up where everyone just knows. Honest. Pure. It even satisfies all those "glasses aren't fooling anyone" types.

because that's too extreme and not fun? the triangle can still work somehow, in some form.

[Adekis]

If they are that weak a disguise then everyone knows. If you don't believe that there is more to the disguise than something Lois immediately sees through then it's not a disguise and the whole thing falls apart.

And when Superman was gaslighting Lois, she was borderline obsessive with discovering his secret. it wasn't like she was any better in those tales. That's why I said I wouldn't want the triangle back if the main focus was on Lois trying to find out the secret.

I'm with you on the Silver Age thing. That whole set-up doesn't really abide by like, real-world relationship logic.

At the same time, Superman's disguise in general doesn't abide by real-world logic, and I don't think it has to. As much as I like to think of Superman as putting on a dozen different mini-mannerisms to put people off the scent, out of all the myriad complaints people made about Superman Returns and Batman v. Superman, nobody said "Clark is too obviously Superman," that I remember. Everyone knows they're not that different looking, people get it. We got that way back when it was George Reeves deliberately acting as similarly between the two as he could, and culturally that is still there, but ultimately I think it's something the audience will mostly just accept, while simultaneously knowing it's not realistic. Sometimes it'll come up as a joke in pop culture, but mostly it's just an element of the Superman mythos that everyone kind of knows. Treating it realistically isn't the issue.

Granted, no longer doing lots of stories where Lois tries to find out his identity definitely helps, right? I mean in Man of Steel she knows Clark Kent is Superman before he ever puts on a pair of glasses, so it's a non-issue.

[stargazer01]

For my money, the worst is in the Death of Superman animated movie, where Kal legitimately thinks it's a possibility that Barry's going to marry Iris without telling her he's the Flash. I mean man, how anyone thought that movie did his relationship with Lois better than the live action movies is far, far beyond me.



I don't know, I think that Batman v. Superman, for all that people like to bash it, did very sensibly with regard to the Clark Kent disguise. I mean sure, it didn't apply to Lois, who knew Clark was Superman, but otherwise the solution was just that Clark worked at the Planet and nobody knew he was Superman. Don't draw attention to it, it's just how it is.



.

I remember Barry told Clark Iris already knew he was The Flash. He suggested Clark had to tell Lois. It didn't bother me that Clark was not sure what to do or when because it showed he's not perfect and has doubts. Plus he did it out of concern for Lois' safety.

And Clark's disguise in BvS did work because as you said only Lois had seen Superman up close. But I don't think it'd be a great idea for characters like Perry to see Superman up close because he could start to suspect.

[Flash Gordon]

Without the tension of the Lois and Clark relationship, the "mild mannered Clark Kent" persona isn't needed anymore. I've felt for quite a while now that it doesn't really work anymore, if Superman is to be a married man with kids of his own. Either he still plays the Clark Kent role but it doesn't factor into the stories much, or he adopts new identities along with "Clark Kent". He spends most of his time as Superman and Clark Kent, but ya know he sometimes is a fireman or whatever. He can pop into other lives, to further his mission and adventures.

The glory of the dual identity, with Superman, is that he has to pretend to be an average guy when he isn't average at all. He hides among us humans. So, let him play around with that on a larger scale and still keep Clark Kent, the family man.

[Lasil]

With regard to the comics, I just straight up didn't know that, but I think in the movie the whole point was that Barry kind of reacted to Clark's question with a kind of skeptical bemusement. "Do you really think I'd do something like that?" Regardless of what had happened in fifty year old comics, lying to your spouse on such a fundamental level is really not a reasonable thing to do, if the audience is to see the relationship as anything approaching healthy, in this day and age.

Hrm, I've heard that Clark married Lois without telling her in the Superman newspaper strip. No idea if that's true or not, but I'd definitely be interested in reading it either way, haha!

It's true but it was revealed to be a dream.

Siegel liked doing imaginary stories about Lois & Clark like he said "I do think the occasional stories based on the theme of a hypothetical marriage between Superman and Lois would be interesting, though, if presented as was done years ago, in "Imaginary Tales". In the 1960s, under the editorial inspiration and guidance of then editor Mort Weisinger, I wrote such tales, for the Lois Lane magazine: "Mr. and Mrs. Clark (Superman) Kent", "Lois Lane' Super-Daughter", "The Wife of Super-man. "Lois Lane and Superman, Newlyweds", "The Three Wives of Superman". I also scripted a story in which Superman married Lana Lang, and stories in which Lois married Luthor. It was fun doing these off-beat stories because it showed faces of the personalities of both Superman and Lois which otherwise would never have been depicted. It was interesting and reassuring to reveal that despite his physical and mental superiority, Superman sometimes enjoyed, and sometimes suffered, from the very same human emotions that we all have. Should Superman marry Lois? No! Should there be more imaginary tales concerning such a marriage? Yes!

IMO Siegel had the right idea.

[cookies]

Dude, you must hate their status quo right now lol

[Lasil]

Dude, you must hate their status quo right now lol

I hate what Bendis is doing and stopped reading after #1004.

My headcanon is that Superman #45 was the last story for that version of Lois & Clark. They got a happy ending.

[cookies]

I hate what Bendis is doing and stopped reading after #1004.

My headcanon is that Superman #45 was the last story for that version of Lois & Clark. They got a happy ending.

same! But for now I'll wait for his run to finished.
who knows he will give us one of the best superman stories ever? *fingers crossed*
Superman#45, the end of such a flawless Superman comic run T^T I wish we could get that Superfamily back

[Yoda]

Not a bad wat to look at it. Though it kinda looks like Bendis is bringing back a version of the triangle after a fashion.

[manwhohaseverything]

How did Lois create the Clark Kent persona in Smallville?

It was her idea to make Clark all nerdy and clumsy. From what i remember Clark used to regularly forget the Glasses and Lois used to remind him and push him to wear it. He hated acting like that.

[rpmaluki]

It was her idea to make Clark all nerdy and clumsy. From what i remember Clark used to regularly forget the Glasses and Lois used to remind him and push him to wear it. He hated acting like that.

He hated it at the beginning but because he understood there had to be a difference between Clark and eventually Superman, he got over it. He didn't like the idea of people looking down on Lois for being with someone like that but Lois didn't care because she knew and loved the real him. At the very end, he's clumsy act was a lot more convincing and because that Lois was into costumes, she did find his nerd oddly sexy, she was kinky that way.

[Nelliebly]

It's true but it was revealed to be a dream.

Siegel liked doing imaginary stories about Lois & Clark like he said "I do think the occasional stories based on the theme of a hypothetical marriage between Superman and Lois would be interesting, though, if presented as was done years ago, in "Imaginary Tales". In the 1960s, under the editorial inspiration and guidance of then editor Mort Weisinger, I wrote such tales, for the Lois Lane magazine: "Mr. and Mrs. Clark (Superman) Kent", "Lois Lane' Super-Daughter", "The Wife of Super-man. "Lois Lane and Superman, Newlyweds", "The Three Wives of Superman". I also scripted a story in which Superman married Lana Lang, and stories in which Lois married Luthor. It was fun doing these off-beat stories because it showed faces of the personalities of both Superman and Lois which otherwise would never have been depicted. It was interesting and reassuring to reveal that despite his physical and mental superiority, Superman sometimes enjoyed, and sometimes suffered, from the very same human emotions that we all have. Should Superman marry Lois? No! Should there be more imaginary tales concerning such a marriage? Yes!

IMO Siegel had the right idea.

No. He didn’t. Because, as with all things, CONTEXT and understanding how this man was influenced by his time and, more importantly, the way WOMEN were treated in his time is everything.

Siegel felt that Lois and Clark couldn’t marry because, in his words, it meant that “Lois would have to quit her job.” Because, in his time—-a very dated and misogynist time mine you—women could be “Career gals” like Lois OR they could be wives and mothers but you couldn’t be BOTH. In Siegel’s time, the general consensus was that once a woman got married it was then her duty to stop working and devote herself solely to being a wife. You see a lot of this mentality seep into the Silver Age stories.

Siegel wasn’t against Lois and Clark being married in the context that we in 2019 understand modern marriage. He was reacting in CONTEXT to a very specific sexist but accepted mindset that many men of his time held wherein women like Lois weren’t allowed to both be out working with the men AND be wives and mothers. It was a mindset that denied women true equal rights and personhood and we still see the lingering impact of it today with the “she don’t need no man” crap that punishes strong women like Lois when they find love.

It should be noted that Siegel’s daughter, Laura, is in favor of the marriage and in favor of Lois being treated as the equal partner her farther ::intended::Lois to be.

It should also be noted that if it had been up to Siegel, Lois would have been let in on the secret and made a full partner as early as like 1940 in the K-Metal storyline.

You cannot discuss Siegel or frankly any of this stuff without taking into serious reflection and consideration the context of the cultural norms with which these men were operating. Lois Lane is fascinating specifically because, much like Wonder Woman, her treatment has often mirrored the growth and rise of the feminist movement.

The idea, which absolutely existed decades ago, that she could be only a wife OR a star reporter but not both at the same time was sexist. Plain and simple. And any discussion about all of this that fails to both consider that or understand it is a wasted exercise.