I miss the love triangle

[Vakanai]

I like it. But I rather Superman not let Lois see his face directly until he's either ready to trust her more or she figures out he is Clark.

See? There are other ways to play this concept and still be exciting.

That's kind of what I was implying, that he only lets Lois see his face when he's ready for her to know.

Instead of glasses being the disguise, Superman just doesn't let Lois see his face. With his super hearing he knows Lois is on her way and he flies off after saving the day just before she arrives to report on the scene, or he uses his super speed to rescue her or stop whatever when she's around so all she sees is a blur. She doesn't even get to compare Clark's face to an image of Superman because no one's managed to take a good picture of him yet because of the super speed blur effect. I even thought up an idea relating to his heat vision that when he's out as Superman he's constantly shooting invisible and harmless infrared rays from his eyes which messes with the pictures of older and cheaper types of cameras. If you do something like that, that utilizes his powers, then the secret identity working even against someone like Lois is no longer a stretch that makes anyone look dumb.

[DochaDocha]

Also, there's a lot of ways in which Clark Kent and Superman can be seen together at the same time, be it thanks to shapeshifters or Superman robots. I figure if he created that smokescreen early on, at least people will stop assuming that they're the same guy because why would you assume that unless you had reason to believe that one was an impostor?

[Lasil]

In 1978 Superman & Lois got married on Earth-2 and the couple had back-up stories. The main Earth-1 Superman wasn't married and Lois didn't know his secret.

That was the best way to stay true to Siegel's original formula and gave both all fans what they wanted. The married Lois kept working at the Daily Star of course...Whoever made up the story that Lois would quit her job was lying.

[Robanker]

In 1978 Superman & Lois got married on Earth-2 and the couple had back-up stories. The main Earth-1 Superman wasn't married and Lois didn't know his secret.

That was the best way to stay true to Siegel's original formula and gave both all fans what they wanted. The married Lois kept working at the Daily Star of course...Whoever made up the story that Lois would quit her job was lying.

I think the love triangle only works for a while before you start running into "she's stupid for the glasses," "she only likes him for his powers," or "wow, he's such a dishonest dick." The idea of an all-powerful guy gaslighting his love interest who we're supposed to believe is the world's best reporter and quite intelligent will not really fly for long in today's market. The love triangle as it existed would need some serious updating to work.

More importantly, Superman is the DC Universe's success story. He's the immigrant from the stars who was adopted, accepted and grew up to be one of the best people on the planet (to say nothing of his abilities). He got a job, he met a girl and eventually, yes, married her. He adds a lot to the greater DCU by adding contrast to the usual dour state of it. Someone made it work. Someone gets to have a good life.

I'd be more willing to let go of it were I confident some other characters actually got to develop their lives outside heroics, but even Arthur and Mera are doing that "star-crossed lovers" thing right now.

I like the triangle fine in origin, early or elseworld plots, but it really does no favors to Lois Lane and generally has outstayed its welcome in the ongoing publication.

[stargazer01]

That's kind of what I was implying, that he only lets Lois see his face when he's ready for her to know.

Instead of glasses being the disguise, Superman just doesn't let Lois see his face. With his super hearing he knows Lois is on her way and he flies off after saving the day just before she arrives to report on the scene, or he uses his super speed to rescue her or stop whatever when she's around so all she sees is a blur. She doesn't even get to compare Clark's face to an image of Superman because no one's managed to take a good picture of him yet because of the super speed blur effect. I even thought up an idea relating to his heat vision that when he's out as Superman he's constantly shooting invisible and harmless infrared rays from his eyes which messes with the pictures of older and cheaper types of cameras. If you do something like that, that utilizes his powers, then the secret identity working even against someone like Lois is no longer a stretch that makes anyone look dumb.

I think it's important that regurlar citizens are able to see his face in order to trust him, but he should be very careful about people taking photos of him, especially Lois and Jimmy (Perry too should not see Supes face). Eventually he will come to trust her when she proves she's trustworthy. Meanwhile, the way they sometimes meet for interviews should be kind of mysterious since she can't see his face clearly.

[Soubhagya]

You are not alone Lasil. There are a number of proponents of the love triangle. Some high profile ones too. There was the idea of Superman 2000. Alan Moore's Supreme pretty much confirms his opinion. It worked for decades. There are strong arguments which i can't simply sweep under the rug.

At the same time i prefer Superman and Lois Lane to be married. Lois and Clark being partners. That's believable. That's modern. That's what i prefer at any rate. If you are the love interest, why aren't you married? Forget marriage, its a very big lie to tell to a partner. The marriage works for me. Its just the next phase of Clark's life. Superman as husband. Kal as father. Its progression. Which is somewhat rare in comic books which always remain in the second act. They have to maintain an illusion of progress while remaining static.

The triangle is good as a starting point. I enjoy these stories. But i don't think i can enjoy it as an ongoing status quo. I may enjoy Teen Titans Go! once in a while. But i am not going to watch that every day or even every week. i maybe loosing something. It maybe a mistake. But even it were a mistake, mistakes can be beautiful sometimes.




I am attracted to a lot of things in Superman. One of them is that he is unique. How many superhero marriages are there in comics? And i like Lois and Clark in DCEU. It wasn't as fun as the Donner films. I admit that. But it was sweet to see them as partners, friends and lovers. Its a different flavor.

[The Overlord]

The problem is I do not think anyone is coming up with a good argument why this ''love triangle'' works, other than ''nerd nostalgia'', people saying its good simply because it was what was done in the past. Frankly, I dislike nerd nostalgia at this point, I think its trap both comic books and other nerdy properties fall into and frankly I think its a millstone dragging things down. Superman has to have this silly love triangle because that is what done in the past, Spider-Man cannot be married because he was not married back in the Silver Age, Star Trek films have to constantly recreate Wrath of Khan because that is what worked in the past, Star Wars: The Force Awakens, has to be a recreation of a New Hope, because that worked in the past.

Frankly, I am sick of nerd nostalgia, move these properties forward rather than trying to constantly relive past glories, if no one can come up with a better argument for this love triangle than ''it was done in the past'', I see no reason to just leave it in the past. Things change and some ideas simply belong in the past, rather than the present.

[Jim Kelly]

In DC SPECIAL SERIES No. 5 (1977) aka the Superman Spectacular, there was a two page text feature, Super-Symposium: "Should Superman Marry Lois Lane?" where different Superman creators each had their say on the question. Jerry Siegel is a No, but wants more imaginary stories about the marriage. Martin Pasko turns the question over to Lois Lane, who says she's a No at the moment but she's mulling it over (continue to read future issues for more developments). Mort Weisinger proposes that Clark Kent marry Lois Lane and they get their own spin-off, MR.& MRS. SUPERMAN, where the marriage is explored while the other mags show them unmarried. Denny O'Neil says No to the marriage. And Len Wein is firmly against such a development.

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[Robanker]

In DC SPECIAL SERIES No. 5 (1977) aka the Superman Spectacular, there was a two page text feature, Super-Symposium: "Should Superman Marry Lois Lane?" where different Superman creators each had their say on the question. Jerry Siegel is a No, but wants more imaginary stories about the marriage. Martin Pasko turns the question over to Lois Lane, who says she's a No at the moment but she's mulling it over (continue to read future issues for more developments). Mort Weisinger proposes that Clark Kent marry Lois Lane and they get their own spin-off, MR.& MRS. SUPERMAN, where the marriage is explored while the other mags show them unmarried. Denny O'Neil says No to the marriage. And Len Wein is firmly against such a development.

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They were younger men in a different time. While it doesn't discredit their stated opinion, if you asked anyone from that point in DC if they should have made an Aquaman film, they'd also argue against it. I don't mean to be a contrarian using hindsight as fact, but I'm merely comparing that Aquaman then and now are completely different, as is Superman. Moreover, so are comics and the general readership. This is pre-DC implosion, pre-crisis, and even before the big British invasion of comics in the early '80s. The landscape was completely different. When you look at the readership of 1977, that is itself an entirely different can of worms. It wouldn't have made as much sense back then to marry them off and I don't really think it would have helped either Lois or Clark.

We're discussing if, right now, the love triangle still works. I still contend that for an ongoing serialization, without modification, no it does not. To be perfectly frank, most superheroes don't even bother with secret identities or civilian supporting casts. I'm not sure it could sustain itself without furthering the notion that Lois Lane is an incompetent investigative journalist and generally an idiot, or that Superman is a dishonest jerk who lies to someone he claims to love and leads her on for his own amusement. Is that my interpretation? Not at all, but if you publish it for years-on-end while having him occasionally see other heroines (which is the big appeal of a non-married hero), eventually that becomes the big take-away.

And I am done-to-death of will-they-won't-they with what is the biggest, most well-known and established relationship in comics. They're as forgone a conclusion as taxes and dying at the end. Moreover, should you split them up, the will-they-won't-they aspect becomes trite itself. They won't because you already unmade it. We know you won't let it happen. It's the problem of a post-OMD Spider-Man; he'll never get married because they moved heaven and earth to undo it, so every relationship of his (no matter with who or how strongly written) will ultimately start and stop until time immemorial. They sidestepped that with Lois and Clark right before Rebirth by revealing that they never truly split, and that's about the only way you can do it.


For early stories, adaptions and done-in-ones/elseworlds, I'm all for it. That's where it works best.

[Jim Kelly]

Oy gevalt. Serves me right for thinking you guys would enjoy this blast from the past.

[Yoda]

Not surprising that 40 year old opinions are supportive of old tropes. I mean, what exactly would you expect? I wouldn't look to 80 year olds for storytelling plot ideas in 2019.

[Lasil]

What if Lois trying to find out Superman's secret is a romantic game for them and Lois says she doesn't have a problem if a superhero tries to date her while keeping his identity a secret but she will figure it out. It can be their kink.

[Lasil]

Not surprising that 40 year old opinions are supportive of old tropes. I mean, what exactly would you expect? I wouldn't look to 80 year olds for storytelling plot ideas in 2019.

IMO the creator's wishes should always be respected. They created the characters so they know best.

[Yoda]

IMO the creator's wishes should always be respected. They created the characters so they know best.

To a certain extent, I agree. But you have to adapt characters as well or they just fade into the past.

[Agent Z]

IMO the creator's wishes should always be respected. They created the characters so they know best.

No they don't. Not always. Many characters went in directions completely different from what their creators intended and ended up better for it.