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  1. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    DC has also some female characters that sell well Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Harley Quinn and Batgirl (at least as long as the writing is decent), and plenty of white male characters who can't support a book.

    I think it is in general more a problem with generating height sales for new or obscure character in general, than something that has to do with minority leads. Most books that have a new or lesser known character as lead don't sell. It is just that a lot of the new books comic publisher put out are minority lead.
    I’m not sure how your examples prove your point about minority leads, white women are not really a minority group, but I understand you don’t believe diverse leads are the problem. I would say that the people you quoted are all characters who have been very successful in multiple types of media and have been pushed pretty hard by DC. The only minority close to that level of exposure would be cyborg but his book didn’t sell well either.

    I guess the point I made wasn’t very clear, I’m basically saying that if DC only sell books that are really popular selling 40k plus per issue we are unlikely to get many minority solo books in the future as these books for whatever reason, tend not to be popular with the majority of the DC comic audience. I would love to see a BL book but it seems unlikely at present.

  2. #47
    all cops are bastards Elmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Anti-Geek View Post
    Well, to be fair. BL, Cass and Duke are rarely given a fighting chance.
    hello Anti Geek. your DMs are full so I could not respond to you. But understand there was a typo in my last message to you where I said "I hold ___ toward you," I meant to say I hold "NO ____" toward you. thus my message was misinterpreted by you. Sorry for the confusion and have a nice day
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  3. #48
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    I mean my post about BL having a solo is more that its all well and good to throw racial insults about but as a buisness its all about sales and its pretty shitty but if your book doesn't sell then they tend to throw someone who makes it sell like your Batman/Wolverines on it. I mean its better to at least have tge xharacter out there doing something rather then languishing in limbo. He might actually get a writer interested who can get him a solo.

  4. #49
    Astonishing Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr HardKnocks View Post
    https://www.newsarama.com/45125-blac...ders-role.html
    Tony Isabella is not too enthusiastic about Black Lightning being relegated behind Batman as a “support negro” in the Batman And The Outsiders series.
    I get it - he didn't create BL to be a supporting character in the Batman franchise any more than Green Arrow should be. But it's not like a new thing BL being in Batman's side team. From what I've seen Isabella seems like a malcontent and is always promoting BL to bolster his own cred.

  5. #50
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    I get it - he didn't create BL to be a supporting character in the Batman franchise any more than Green Arrow should be. But it's not like a new thing BL being in Batman's side team.
    That doesn't make it any less egregious. He feels putting Black Lightning in this situation is fundamentally out of character, and I guess he would know more than anyone, since he created him. If I created a character that some people kept writing out of character and undermining, I'd probably have a problem with it, too, unless I was only interested in the pay day.

  6. #51
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    https://taylornetworkofpodcasts.com/...the-outsiders/

    According to this interview of Bryan Hill it seems like Jeff is on course for much bigger things. I love the direction he's aiming and you get the idea that it's not something he's decided on his own either.

    Like it's heights that DC wants him get to and it won't be derailed by another writer. Beyond "street-level". Technically, Jeff is an elemental and there's more to him that's yet to be unlocked. I'm actually glad he's growing beyond his origin.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    I mean my post about BL having a solo is more that its all well and good to throw racial insults about but as a buisness its all about sales and its pretty shitty but if your book doesn't sell then they tend to throw someone who makes it sell like your Batman/Wolverines on it. I mean its better to at least have tge xharacter out there doing something rather then languishing in limbo. He might actually get a writer interested who can get him a solo.
    Question will Dc ever listen to that pitch? Because if you have a book called Batman & Outsiders-even if it sells-who will get the credit? BATMAN.


    I guess the point I made wasn’t very clear, I’m basically saying that if DC only sell books that are really popular selling 40k plus per issue we are unlikely to get many minority solo books in the future as these books for whatever reason, tend not to be popular with the majority of the DC comic audience. ..
    See that comic book store group SHOULD NOT be the ones who dictate what gets made. Because all they will do is DEMAND JUSTIFICATION for any and all POC lead books that are made. While ignoring all the white book that NO ONE ASKED FOR like Spirit, John Carter, most of Dynamite and even stuff like Bob's Burgers, Rom, Burnout and books of Image, After Shock, Ahoy, Archie and so on.

    If your 40K sellers are ONLY white folks-what does that say about YOUR company? That means you have NOT done your job in building up POC. This is where we stop looking at fans and look at the COMPANY.

    How many POC have guest starred in books? Lead events? did more than stand in the background or be a PLOT device? What stories are you using POC in?
    If every story with Black Lightning is a racism story or he bed hops from WW, to Batgirl to Katana to Harley in books-don't expect a solo book to do well.
    Same with Duke keep writing him CRAPPY in Batman-don't expect interest in him.

    If you can't FIND someone on your roster to do a BL story-think outside the BOX. See Black Panther. See Ironheart. See Shuri.
    This is not about long runs-its about getting stuff OUT THERE. The TRADE is more important than that floppy now.


    I would love to see a BL book but it seems unlikely at present
    Why is that? That 22 page book is NOT the only way for him to get a book.
    Luke Cage had a digital series that later came out as a trade. That is a top 100 seller for Amazon Kindle.

    And trade sale wise-BL is your highest seller for POC.

    Black Lightning: Cold Dead Hands
    #75 in Graphic Novel Adaptations (Not sure why it's there)
    #614 in Superhero Comics & Graphic Novels

    Trailing Black Panther, Ms Marvel, Cho Hulk, America Chavez, Shuri, Miles Morales, Moon Girl & Luke Cage.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconic View Post
    https://taylornetworkofpodcasts.com/...the-outsiders/

    According to this interview of Bryan Hill it seems like Jeff is on course for much bigger things. I love the direction he's aiming and you get the idea that it's not something he's decided on his own either.

    Like it's heights that DC wants him get to and it won't be derailed by another writer. Beyond "street-level". Technically, Jeff is an elemental and there's more to him that's yet to be unlocked. I'm actually glad he's growing beyond his origin.
    This is the first time i ever heard someone refer to Black Lightning as an elemental. BL has so much potential to be greater than "street-level" it's just something that writers pigeonhole him as.
    Imagine being proud to have negative traits. I can’t relate.

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  9. #54
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Was this the first time Black Lightning used black lightning? Does anyone know which issue/title that they touch on his black lightning? I hear a lot about it being "mystical" but I can't find where it's touched on or explained
    SIGNAL/Duke Thomas is the Midnight Sun of Gotham (respect thread)
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  10. #55
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    Always loved this panel.

  11. #56
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Almost finished Black Lightning Year One. Really enjoying it so far. I have to say I much prefer this version of his early days to Isabella's more recent origin-ish story that tried to retcon his daughter into his nieces and his wife into a Brit (isn't she supposed to be John Stewart's sister?).

    What's the general perception of this story among the more hardcore Black Lightning fans?

  12. #57
    Mighty Member Iconic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Almost finished Black Lightning Year One. Really enjoying it so far. I have to say I much prefer this version of his early days to Isabella's more recent origin-ish story that tried to retcon his daughter into his nieces and his wife into a Brit (isn't she supposed to be John Stewart's sister?).

    What's the general perception of this story among the more hardcore Black Lightning fans?
    The only things I really liked from the Cold Dead Hands reboot is Jeff being younger and the uses of his power. We didn't get to see him in his prime much and the next thing you know, he's an older man with grown kids. He aged out of nowhere so I'm glad he's about 28 now.

    With him being younger, I'm also ok with the girls being his cousins. It allows them to grow without aging Jefferson much and leaves him room for new relationships.

    Story wise, it was a ton of stuff that just came out of nowhere. Gangsters on jetpacks, that lizard Sssear who was White Thunder, the alien friend who was a shape shifter, all the characters who know his identity. Waaaay too many concepts thrown at us in just a few issues. And then Cleveland just isn't an interesting location for me but oh well.

    That's why I'm glad that Bryan Hill has taken the reigns of Black Lightning. I already appreciate Hill's approach to the character. He makes a character feel authentic. I don't need just another "noble black hero". He's in good hands with Hill.
    Last edited by Iconic; 05-27-2019 at 09:38 AM.

  13. #58
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Almost finished Black Lightning Year One. Really enjoying it so far. I have to say I much prefer this version of his early days to Isabella's more recent origin-ish story that tried to retcon his daughter into his nieces and his wife into a Brit (isn't she supposed to be John Stewart's sister?).

    What's the general perception of this story among the more hardcore Black Lightning fans?
    That's kind of funny in light of the actress for Lyn on the show being British .

    (Count on the girls being retconned back into being his daughters at some point).

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Almost finished Black Lightning Year One. Really enjoying it so far. I have to say I much prefer this version of his early days to Isabella's more recent origin-ish story that tried to retcon his daughter into his nieces and his wife into a Brit (isn't she supposed to be John Stewart's sister?).

    What's the general perception of this story among the more hardcore Black Lightning fans?
    If that was a Marvel book-the backlash you would have seen to it by a certain group would be out of control.

    It was nothing more but an extension of what I dislike about the tv show.

    It took whatever was the flavor of the moment in the abuse of black people storyline and ran with it.

    Guns from outside the hood
    extra fear of black hero
    blacks killed by cops by accident
    black kids with a weapon
    said black kids end up with a same sex couple who happen to be NOT black.

    Too much obvious social commentary.

    Of course when you look at who the editor was and his track record-New 52 Static & Cyborg's books-you can understand why this did not sell as a floppy. It has done better as a trade.

    It needed more than 6 issues to tell that story.

  15. #60
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    If that was a Marvel book-the backlash you would have seen to it by a certain group would be out of control.

    It was nothing more but an extension of what I dislike about the tv show.

    It took whatever was the flavor of the moment in the abuse of black people storyline and ran with it.

    Guns from outside the hood
    extra fear of black hero
    blacks killed by cops by accident
    black kids with a weapon
    said black kids end up with a same sex couple who happen to be NOT black.

    Too much obvious social commentary.

    Of course when you look at who the editor was and his track record-New 52 Static & Cyborg's books-you can understand why this did not sell as a floppy. It has done better as a trade.

    It needed more than 6 issues to tell that story.
    But isn't most of that why the TV show became popular?

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