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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    They popped up in Cold Dead Hands, but their role was really minor. As someone who discovered Black Lightning through the tv show, it was really surprising.

  2. #32
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    https://www.newsarama.com/45125-blac...ders-role.html
    Tony Isabella is not too enthusiastic about Black Lightning being relegated behind Batman as a “support negro” in the Batman And The Outsiders series.

  3. #33
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    I understand Isabella's sentiments. Making Black Lightning a character in BATMAN and the Outsiders clearly doesn't represent what Isabella intended when he created the character all those years ago, and it's demeaning in a way. It's similar to John Stewart in HAL JORDAN and the Green Lantern Corps, but even worse, because Black Lightning is one of the few black characters (maybe even the only one) who really has his own world, while John Stewart is, in some ways, a black version of Hal Jordan in Hal Jordan's world. I can understand how making him one of Batman's lackeys undermines the character.

    Fans don't really always know what's best for a character. They probably just want to see more of the character any way they can get him, but Isabella's interested in protecting the character, his image, and what he built for the character all those years ago. From that point of view, it's ultimately not in the best character's interest to be associated with Batman as one of his stooges when Black Lightning is perhaps the only truly independent black character DC owns.

    I think it would be better to print minis when DC can that continue to develop the character's solo adventures than lower his integrity by making him a Batman flunky in the hopes of more steady sales. But I really don't believe DC thinks about the long term health and positioning of its characters, which is interesting, because when you're in publishing, you have to think about the long term, because publishing is more of a marathon than a sprint. These comics publishers treat it like a sprint, though, often employing tactics that give short term gains, but cause long term damage.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    More minis are definitively something I want. Black Lightning, or Cassandra Cain, or Duke Thomas, or Derek James don't necessarily need long ongoing out yesterday if they sadly can't sustain them right now.

    But several minis for those characters, six-issues long at the least, possibly once a year ? It would definitively help them build a stronger brand if the quality's here, develop as characters and plant seeds which could come to fruition, albeit at a slower pace than during an ongoing. But hopefully, after three or four minis selling well enough, the characters would get maxi-series and then an ongoing.

    But I'm not sure that fans nor DC have the patience for this today.

  5. #35
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    https://www.cbr.com/batman-outsiders...ack-lightning/
    Bryan Edward Hill responded to Tony Isabella’s dissatisfaction with Black Lightning in Batman and the Outsiders.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    More minis are definitively something I want. Black Lightning, or Cassandra Cain, or Duke Thomas, or Derek James don't necessarily need long ongoing out yesterday if they sadly can't sustain them right now.

    But several minis for those characters, six-issues long at the least, possibly once a year ? It would definitively help them build a stronger brand if the quality's here, develop as characters and plant seeds which could come to fruition, albeit at a slower pace than during an ongoing. But hopefully, after three or four minis selling well enough, the characters would get maxi-series and then an ongoing.

    But I'm not sure that fans nor DC have the patience for this today.
    Titan Comics does that with Rivers of London.

    A series about a black guy. They are currently on volume 6 and in year 4 of doing so.

    Image has Bitter Root doing 6 issues and taking the summer off before starting up again.

    Wrong Earth will return in 2020. Naomi will be done after issue 6 for the rest of the year.

    You take time off when doing a volume.

    And since certain comic books store don't want POC lead books to be made-why not do OGN that can BYPASS them. Since the main folks interesting in Black Lightning don't bother with comic book stores.

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Well, I'd definitely take more minis or a ongoing solo (seriously, where the f*ck is *that* at, DC???) for Jeff.

    Haven't had a chance to read the new Outsiders yet, but Lightning and Soy were the only real reasons I was even interested (I like Duke and Katana but without Jeff this would be a trade-wait title). And I get where Isabella is coming from. And I'd be perfectly fine without the Bat being around. Dont care at all that the Outsiders were his team originally. Been suffering from Bat-burnout since like, 2001. But a month ago I had no Black Lightning to read unless I dug out old issues. This week I have (or will, once I hit the LCS) new Black Lightning to read.
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  8. #38
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    And since certain comic books store don't want POC lead books to be made-why not do OGN that can BYPASS them. Since the main folks interesting in Black Lightning don't bother with comic book stores.
    Ive seen you mention this before. Is that really a big problem where you're at? The only time one the local shops around here wouldn't order an issue was Wonder Woman 600, because they hated the idea of the new JMS direction. They might've done it with other books, they were a sh*t store I rarely frequented, but I always saw books with women or PoC on the ranks so they weren't bigots, just idiot fanboys. Otherwise I never see this happen in my region. Are there some statistics on this you can link me, because Im pretty interested in how widespread a problem this is.

    Ya'll know I love the business side of this industry and theory-crafting about production/distribution models. Retailer attitudes gotta be taken into account.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    More minis are definitively something I want. Black Lightning, or Cassandra Cain, or Duke Thomas, or Derek James don't necessarily need long ongoing out yesterday if they sadly can't sustain them right now.

    But several minis for those characters, six-issues long at the least, possibly once a year ? It would definitively help them build a stronger brand if the quality's here, develop as characters and plant seeds which could come to fruition, albeit at a slower pace than during an ongoing. But hopefully, after three or four minis selling well enough, the characters would get maxi-series and then an ongoing.

    But I'm not sure that fans nor DC have the patience for this today.

    Well, to be fair. BL, Cass and Duke are rarely given a fighting chance.
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  10. #40
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Isabela not liking Black Lightning in the Outsiders is nothing new, even if he's their leader and Batman's just paying the bills. However, I am curious what Isabela thought about his time in the JLA

  11. #41
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    Has BL had a solo that sold well ?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetengine View Post
    Has BL had a solo that sold well ?
    As far as I can tell not really.
    Cold Dead Hands started at only 18,750 copies sold for issue #1 and finished with 7,824 copies for issue 6, and Year one was even worse, that started with 13,800 copies for issue #1 and finished with 8,818 copies for issue #6.

    It is hard to get Numbers for his previous two series, but since they ran only for 11 and 13 issues respectively, they can't have been that amazing either.

  13. #43

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    I think DC would need to push BL a lot more for his solo to sell well, let’s be completely transparent here, unless you’re a white male character preferably created before the 1980s you’re going to need a big push to reach higher sales. While DC is business and therefore are motivated by profit it is sad that minority and newer character are forever limited to supporting roles or obscurity because they don’t appeal to the majority demographic of comic buyers.

    I know it’s unlikely but I’d really like to see the numbers on how much it costs to create a book and how much sales are needed to keep it profitable, I don’t think BL will ever reach the level of Batman, Dick or Superman but I don’t think that’s even expected at Dc.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucius121 View Post
    I think DC would need to push BL a lot more for his solo to sell well, let’s be completely transparent here, unless you’re a white male character preferably created before the 1980s you’re going to need a big push to reach higher sales.
    DC has also some female characters that sell well Wonder Woman, Catwoman, Harley Quinn and Batgirl (at least as long as the writing is decent), and plenty of white male characters who can't support a book.

    I think it is in general more a problem with generating height sales for new or obscure character in general, than something that has to do with minority leads. Most books that have a new or lesser known character as lead don't sell. It is just that a lot of the new books comic publisher put out are minority lead.

  15. #45
    Incredible Member Vampire Savior's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucius121 View Post
    I think DC would need to push BL a lot more for his solo to sell well, let’s be completely transparent here, unless you’re a white male character preferably created before the 1980s you’re going to need a big push to reach higher sales. While DC is business and therefore are motivated by profit it is sad that minority and newer character are forever limited to supporting roles or obscurity because they don’t appeal to the majority demographic of comic buyers.

    I know it’s unlikely but I’d really like to see the numbers on how much it costs to create a book and how much sales are needed to keep it profitable, I don’t think BL will ever reach the level of Batman, Dick or Superman but I don’t think that’s even expected at Dc.
    Most comics these days have 20 pages of content that needs to be produced, plus a cover.
    If you're paying a cheap penciller, you're paying them around $150 a page. Some people will take as low as about $80 or $90, but you usually see that in indie circles. I don't know if DC and Marvel pay that low, but it wouldn't surprise me. One reason you see so many artists from places like South America and South East Asia is because $70 or so dollars a page could be a lot of money for them, and a lot of US artists won't work that cheap unless they are doing it to get a foot in the door, and then those people might not be very good or experienced.

    You're probably paying an inker around $100 a page.
    A colorist might make between $50 to about $90 a page.
    A letterer might make around $50 a page. Maybe less.
    A cheap writer might make $100 a page. Maybe $90.
    I have no idea how much assistant editors make, but I hear it isn't a lot.
    I don't know how much editors make.
    Then there are people in production who do certain things like the trade dress and other tasks. I don't know how much they make.

    I don't know what the printing costs would be. I think I did roughly know at one time, but I forgot.

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