Upcoming Legacy Numbering

[Digifiend]

Back in 2017 we got the Legacy Number Info Charts which gave us an idea of how Marvel arrived anther official count.

With more recent anniversary issues, did we ever learn officially how Spider-Woman has gotten to #100, or if Captain Marvel included that "Life of CM" mini?

#125-129 - Captain Marvel #125-129
#130-134 - Life of Captain Marvel #1-5
#135-156 - Captain Marvel (2019) #1-22

As for Spider-Woman... it's messy. It should be this:

#1-50 - Spider-Woman (1978) #1-50
#51-54 - Spider-Woman (1993) #1-4
#55-73 - Spider-Woman (1999) #1-18
#74-81 - Spider-Woman (2009) #1-7
#82-91 - Spider-Woman (2015) #1-10
#92-109 - Spider-Woman (2016) #1-17
#110-114 - Spider-Woman (2020) #1-5

That's wrong, so let's take out Julia's and Mattie's.

#1-50 - Spider-Woman (1978) #1-50
#51-57 - Spider-Woman (2009) #1-7
#58-67 - Spider-Woman (2015) #1-10
#68-85 - Spider-Woman (2016) #1-17
#86-90 - Spider-Woman (2020) #1-5

We've gone from 14 too many to 10 short. So now we add Jessica Drew comics that aren't called just Spider-Woman.

#1-50 - Spider-Woman (1978) #1-50
#51 - Giant-Size Spider-Woman (2005) #1
#52-56 - Spider-Woman Origin (2006) #1-5
#57 - Spider-Woman Saga (2009) #1
#58-64 - Spider-Woman (2009) #1-7
#65 - Spider-Island: Spider-Woman (2011) #1
#66-75 - Spider-Woman (2015) #1-10
#76-93 - Spider-Woman (2016) #1-17
#94-95 - Spider-Women (2016) #Alpha-Omega
#96-100 - Spider-Woman (2020) #1-5

And there you have it!

[jebsib]

Thanks Digifiend - great detective work.
Hoping Marvel confirms your theories officially, but I won't bet on it.

Obviously the X-Line is marching to its own drum, but here are my thoughts on upcoming releases;
Do these sound correct?


Black Widow - Upcoming #1 should be #58 (?)

Iron Man - Upcoming #1 should be #626 (?)

Shang-Chi - Upcoming #1 should be # 127 (?)

Champions - Upcoming #1 should be # 38 (?)

[Digifiend]

Champions is correct. 27+10, the 1970s series doesn't count as it's unrelated to Kamala's team.

Shang Chi is indeed #127, confirmed because it had a Legacy one-shot numbered #126!

Black Widow looks right as well, counting what's listed here.

Iron Man, though, is wrong. 600+19, which makes the relaunch #620. Iron Man 2020 doesn't count.

[jebsib]

Thanks!!! Ok, got it - 2020 doesn’t count, as it’s an Arno series.

I think I’m going to take a stab at calculating the X-titles...
although the Uncanny legacy number appearing on Hickman’s first adjective-less “X-Men” issue is throwing me off pretty badly!

[Digifiend]

Yep. It's Iron Man 2020 volume 2, and it doesn't have legacy numbering on the cover... presumably because issue 1 is LGY #002.

[jebsib]

Do you think the Legacy Numbers are here to stay or will peter out in the next 5 years?

[Digifiend]

Honestly, that depends on if comic stores and the direct market last that long! DC's recent news and the continued COVID crisis are making things look very unpredictable right now.

[CaptCleghorn]

Do you think the Legacy Numbers are here to stay or will peter out in the next 5 years?

They've come and gone with some books. I'd like to see them definitely stick around for any Marvel book that's from the sixties. The fankid in me likes them and those books generally have the potential for the biggest anniversary celebrations so Marvel does have a reason to at least keep track even if they don't put the number on the book. But will they? I suspect their presence will come and go along with changes in Marvel's editorial staff.

[Mike_Murdock]

I tend to agree - keep them for books from the 60s. The rest I can take or leave. I don't like the inconsistency with the whole thing.

Considering books like Captain America include the Tales of Suspense numbering it inherited (so issue 300 wasn't the 300th Captain America story), I actually wish they did the same even if it seemed weird. I would count the original Champions, for example. I also would have counted Captain Marvel from the Mar-Vell series (and included the Monica Rambeau mini), not from Ms. Marvel. I also would have included the Black Panther: The Man Without Fear/The Most Dangerous Man Alive as part of Daredevil's legacy numbering. They would have missed issue 600 so I can't blame them there, but that's honestly what I would have preferred.

[Digifiend]

Including Mar-Vell, Monica and Genis in Carol's count would also bump up Kamala's legacy numbering, as she'd inherit Carol's first two Ms. Marvel series.

Captain America's an odd case actually. It really should count Captain America Comics from the 40s and 50s, but doesn't! That cancels out the discrepancy from counting Suspense issues he wasn't in.

[Mike_Murdock]

Sure, but I could have replaced Captain America with Thor.

[CaptCleghorn]

Sure, but I could have replaced Captain America with Thor.

Or even replacing him with Dr Strange. But in looking at what the Legacy numbering means is seeing what a book's issue number would be had the numbering continued without re-numbering either caused by cancellation or other reasons. Leacy numbers are NOT indications of how many issues a characterr had, but what the number of their first MAJOR series would have been.

There are many situations that turn this system into chaos. Cap (and Namor's) Golden Age series, Strange Tales returning using Dr. Strange's numbers (or Thor and JIM), and Marvel conundrum in having to piss off some part or their fan base by using Legacy or not.

[Mike_Murdock]

Or even replacing him with Dr Strange. But in looking at what the Legacy numbering means is seeing what a book's issue number would be had the numbering continued without re-numbering either caused by cancellation or other reasons. Leacy numbers are NOT indications of how many issues a characterr had, but what the number of their first MAJOR series would have been.

Right, which is why I thought counting the Black Panther issues that took Daredevil's numbering as part of Daredevil would have been the right call.

[CaptCleghorn]

Right, which is why I thought counting the Black Panther issues that took Daredevil's numbering as part of Daredevil would have been the right call.

And the rules change from book to book. There seems to be no overarching algorithm for this. Carol and Mar-Vell are kept separate with the same name as are Jennifer and Bruce. Marvel also treats the old anthology titles differently as they've numbered Tales of Suspense, Journey Into Mystery, and Strange Tales with the same numbers given to Cap, Thor, and Doc.

I also need to adjust my statement: "Legacy numbers are NOT indications of how many issues a character had, but what the number of their first MAJOR series would have been." as that applies more to the older characters with books. The later characters look to be more of a "how many issues have the headlined". But no matter what system I can come up with, there is always an exception. Perhaps the best philosophy is "Marvel did it this way; Deal with it, Pilgrim".

I still have my desires as to what numbers should be, though. Is my self-realized fanboy entitlement still fanboy entitlement?

[jebsib]

The Current X-Men Line (as of the most recently physically-published issue)

Here's my stab at this group.
This was difficult as - for whatever reason - the Hickman "Dawn of X" line has not received Legacy Numbering, and many series were preceded with unclear volumes (eg: Was X-23's "All-New Wolverine" series considered part of 'Wolverine'? (I think not): Was "New Excalibur" part of 'Excalibur'? (I think so) - but Marvel has been inconsistent on this sort of thing in the past, so who knows).

I have also presented 2 options for Hickman's "X-Men"; X-Men vol. 5 #1 weirdly carried the Legacy Number for Uncanny X-Men (#645).
This was either an error or a tip-off that X-Men was now "The Flagship X-Men title";
Regardless of the reasoning, the numbering was instantly dropped.

X-Men, vol. 5, #10 = #654 LGY or #284 LGY (If numbering continues from the Claremont / Jim Lee series from 1991)

New Mutants, vol. 4, #11 = #174 LGY

X-Factor, vol. 4, #1 = #283 LGY (if 20 issues of All-New XF is included)

Fallen Angels, vol. 2, #6 = #14 LGY

Wolverine, vol. 7 #4 = #346 LGY

Excalibur, vol. 4, #11 = #178 LGY

X-Force, vol. 6, #11 = #251 LGY

Cable, vol. 4, #3 = #162 LGY