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  1. #1

    Default What Joker interpretation do you prefer: true insane or “pretending” to be insan

    I was thinking about the Under the Red Hood story where Jason calls out the Joker for using insanity as a gimmick, basically being a poser. Got me thinking about how true that is and I’m pretty sure arguments could be made for “true” insanity and “pretend” insanity depending on the story.

    So I was wondering which of those characterizations you guys like more?

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    By the way, a couple of past threads related to this that may be of interest:
    * Is Joker insane or simply evil?
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...or-simply-evil
    and
    * Has there ever been proof that Joker is insane?
    https://community.cbr.com/showthread...oker-is-insane

  3. #3
    Incredible Member
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    Seeing thread title, first thing that came to mind: "I'm not insane, I'm just differently sane" by Grant Morrison in Batman and Robin, fitting quote for the topic. Morrison writes the best Joker. My other favourite Joker's are in B:TAS and TDK.

  4. #4
    Spectacular Member Batknight's Avatar
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    I don't think Joker is insane, in that he isn't able to think clearly or in a sensible way. He also understands right and wrong and knows what he does is evil. He has a total understanding of what he's doing. However, I think Joker's mind works on a different level than most people. Whatever the chemicals he fell into did to him gave him incredible control of his own psychology and his subconscious mind. He seems to have the ability to form different personalities at will whenever he wants. Go into self-induced comas and also induce states of delusion within himself, forgetting or ignoring memories like his own past at will, or knowing that Bruce Wayne is Batman. So 'differently sane' isn't a bad way to put it.
    Last edited by Batknight; 02-11-2019 at 02:30 PM.

  5. #5
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Joker knows what he's doing is evil, so whether he is insane or not her can't use it as an excuse, he knows what he does is wrong. He'd have been put on the death penalty by now, assuming it's legal in whatever state Gotham is supposed to be in, and shot dead by a cop if not by now. But you ignore that stuff in comics, because comics.

  6. #6
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    Back in 1940, Batman wanted to have a brain surgeon operate on Joker and make a "useful citizen once more". I guess that meant a lobotomy. Have the Arkham psychiatrists ever tried that, or is it illegal nowadays?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by williamtheday View Post
    Back in 1940, Batman wanted to have a brain surgeon operate on Joker and make a "useful citizen once more". I guess that meant a lobotomy. Have the Arkham psychiatrists ever tried that, or is it illegal nowadays?
    I own a spiderman/batman crossover issue where this almost happens. From the 90s i think. I may be misremembering, its lost in a pile of old stuff somewhere in the house.

  8. #8
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    He should be a total psychopath and utterly unpredictable.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Hypersane.

    Like the time he was dipped into the Lazarus Pit, and came out sounding normal-ish (and the Lazarus Pit is known for making people insane for a time).

  10. #10
    Mighty Member The Kid's Avatar
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    I'd like to never be sure. When you have to think about it, Joker has done his job. That's why I love Heath Ledger's Joker. He acted blatantly insane at parts but there was a decent amount of evidence that he was just an evil genius using the clown gimmick as a cover but we never really learned what the truth was. I personally believe the latter. Joker is just a psychopath and in clear control of what he is doing

    To me, Joker is sane in the sense that he knows what he's doing it and enjoys it. He's a psychopath who enjoys playing a heel to Batman. If Batman didn't exist, he'd be a master criminal but without the clown gimmick and the flamboyance we associate with Joker. All of that is a character he plays for Bruce
    Last edited by The Kid; 02-14-2019 at 07:43 PM.
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  11. #11
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    You’ve said it perfectly. He should be several different critters under the skin.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I'd like to never be sure. When you have to think about it, Joker has done his job. That's why I love Heath Ledger's Joker. He acted blatantly insane at parts but there was a decent amount of evidence that he was just an evil genius using the clown gimmick as a cover but we never really learned what the truth was. I personally believe the latter. Joker is just a psychopath and in clear control of what he is doing

    To me, Joker is sane in the sense that he knows what he's doing it and enjoys it. He's a psychopath who enjoys playing a heel to Batman. If Batman didn't exist, he'd be a master criminal but without the clown gimmick and the flamboyance we associate with Joker. All of that is a character he plays for Bruce
    It's plenty obvious that the guy is just presenting himself as a weirdo to throw people off. He isn't insane in the slightest but he can make people think he is. The Nolan trilogy avoided insanity as a motivation for its villains. It's even a plot point in Batman Begins that some criminals fake mental illness to avoid prison.

  13. #13
    Mighty Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    It's plenty obvious that the guy is just presenting himself as a weirdo to throw people off. He isn't insane in the slightest but he can make people think he is. The Nolan trilogy avoided insanity as a motivation for its villains. It's even a plot point in Batman Begins that some criminals fake mental illness to avoid prison.
    Also, when Batman 'dies' in Morrison's run, Joker takes the identity of Oberon Sexton and when he gets pissed at the Black Glove, he starts systematically killing their members. No theatricality, no clowning around. Just straight up strategic murder. More evidence towards him playing up the clown for Batman. Without him there, he's just a regular (although extremely competent) criminal

    That said, the whole 'Oberon Sexton' thing was also Joker playing a gag so who knows. Regardless, he has a pretty clearly twisted sense of humor
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Mutant God's Avatar
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    I say both hes insane at times and other times he acts insane when hes clear minded because he gets bored.
    Skeeter: Hey time traveling O5 members of the X-Men We don't take kindly to people who create a time paradox around here!

    Bartender: Now calm down Skeeter they aint hurtin nobody.

    Skeeter: No! I wanna know som'in from the "O5" How come you cant go back to your own timeline in the first place and how come when Reed Richards "fixed" the universe you wasnt put back and how come the changes that happn to you dont happn to your present day selves?

    Bartender: Skeeter I dont want trouble

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Sane and pulling a con on everybody. He is way too competent to be truly insane and not in control of his actions. In fact, most of Gotham's famous lunatics should not be considered insane, and their placement in Arkham should be a result of the corrupt legal system giving them a lighter sentence. Arkham is too cool and iconic a setting to get rid of, but more work can be done in establishing that: 1. it's reserved for only dangerously criminal mentally ill people, not just anybody as most of Gotham's mentally ill (much like the real world) should be more likely to be victims of violence than the reverse. And 2., even of the occupants, only a few like Dent and Wesker really belong there.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Also, when Batman 'dies' in Morrison's run, Joker takes the identity of Oberon Sexton and when he gets pissed at the Black Glove, he starts systematically killing their members. No theatricality, no clowning around. Just straight up strategic murder. More evidence towards him playing up the clown for Batman. Without him there, he's just a regular (although extremely competent) criminal

    That said, the whole 'Oberon Sexton' thing was also Joker playing a gag so who knows. Regardless, he has a pretty clearly twisted sense of humor
    That scene also included Damian dressing down the Joker and saying everything he did was a plan, and couldn't be as insane as he let on.
    And then beat him with a crowbar, which was amazing.

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