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  1. #1
    All-New Member Bazaboo's Avatar
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    Default New Reader With Some Questions about Earth

    So, I'm just now getting into Marvel comics because I love all the lore and stuff that surrounds the universe. I've been browsing the wiki and reading about Celestials and how they affected the evolutionary trajectory of Humans, and I have some questions...

    I've heard that what allowed Humans to exhibit superhero genes were mutations implanted by the Celestials during the First Host, but later on I have also read that what actually caused this wasn't the First Host but rather when the Progenitor died, and his blood infused with the primordial soup. Which one of these was it, or was it both?

  2. #2
    Fantastic Member capandkirby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bazaboo View Post
    So, I'm just now getting into Marvel comics because I love all the lore and stuff that surrounds the universe. I've been browsing the wiki and reading about Celestials and how they affected the evolutionary trajectory of Humans, and I have some questions...

    I've heard that what allowed Humans to exhibit superhero genes were mutations implanted by the Celestials during the First Host, but later on I have also read that what actually caused this wasn't the First Host but rather when the Progenitor died, and his blood infused with the primordial soup. Which one of these was it, or was it both?
    The Progenitor and primordial soup was Jason Aaron's very recent Avengers ret-con, before that the former was the accepted lore. Personally, I'm waiting to see if Aaron's ret-con sticks before I'm totally accepting of it being the new norm. As the MCU has an Eternals movie coming out, it will be interesting to see what origin Feige goes with.
    Last edited by capandkirby; 02-11-2019 at 11:39 AM.

  3. #3
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    Yeah, Marvel retcons thesr things once in a while. Right now is the Celestrial soup one, but we will have to see if that's what Aaron continues with.

    Frankly, at this point, it's really OK to sort of have your own headcanon on how these things work.

  4. #4
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebunse View Post
    Yeah, Marvel retcons thesr things once in a while. Right now is the Celestrial soup one, but we will have to see if that's what Aaron continues with.

    Frankly, at this point, it's really OK to sort of have your own headcanon on how these things work.
    Then why weren’t there super heroes right through history instead of starting in the 1940’s if it was the Celestials mutations? Why the delay, and why start mutations at sporadic intervals, like the 1940’s, then another spurt in the 1960’s? I just don’t know how that can be explained.

  5. #5
    iMan 42s
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Then why weren’t there super heroes right through history instead of starting in the 1940’s if it was the Celestials mutations? Why the delay, and why start mutations at sporadic intervals, like the 1940’s, then another spurt in the 1960’s? I just don’t know how that can be explained.
    It's because with a universe where most origins of the universe are correct there is bound to be inconsistencies. Not even Aaron is free of that.

    It's frankly more concerning to me that everybody in the past looks and acts like a modern hominid and ignores the timeline of human development even for it being a comicbook.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    It's because with a universe where most origins of the universe are correct there is bound to be inconsistencies. Not even Aaron is free of that.

    It's frankly more concerning to me that everybody in the past looks and acts like a modern hominid and ignores the timeline of human development even for it being a comicbook.
    Actually, in Aaron's Avengers, while there are "normal" humans, these are mostly the heroes, many of whom are changed by being gods or influenced by gods.

    There are cave people and we do see them as they're drinking that magical mead.

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    It's because with a universe where most origins of the universe are correct there is bound to be inconsistencies. Not even Aaron is free of that.

    It's frankly more concerning to me that everybody in the past looks and acts like a modern hominid and ignores the timeline of human development even for it being a comicbook.
    True.

    And wasn't there a story last year about Avengers existing 1,000,000 years ago?

    Welcome to CBR, Bazaboo!

    Glad you are enjoying Marvel Comics.

  8. #8
    Statistics, & Compassion Personamanx's Avatar
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    Realistically there will always be contradiction in serialized fiction spanning decades with multiple creators involved. You can either embrace the contradictions as a quirk of how the genre/medium/industry developed or you can just do mental gymnastics to have it work out in your head.
    Continuity, even in a "shared" comics universe is often insignificant if not largely detrimental to the quality of a comic.

    Die - Paper Girls - Runaways

    Nobody cares about what you don't like, they barely care about what you do like.

  9. #9
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    I personally have my own headcanon that works for me, but sometimes retcons are fun and act sort of like their sort of milestones in Marvel history.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Then why werenít there super heroes right through history instead of starting in the 1940ís if it was the Celestials mutations? Why the delay, and why start mutations at sporadic intervals, like the 1940ís, then another spurt in the 1960ís? I just donít know how that can be explained.
    The long stated reason is that the atomic age created background radiation not previously present which triggered the mutations.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Personamanx View Post
    Realistically there will always be contradiction in serialized fiction spanning decades with multiple creators involved. You can either embrace the contradictions as a quirk of how the genre/medium/industry developed or you can just do mental gymnastics to have it work out in your head.
    I never accepted the Celestial progenitor idea of why super heroes are possible on Earth. And now Aaron starts with the soup idea? Not feeling it. I suppose there has to be some explanation why super humans are popping up, but I would have wanted the Marvel Conspiracy series to be the real reason, myself. Government experiments, similar to the “Manifest” TV series idea, seems more logical to me. This pre-History stuff about space gods is just so random, and why Earth? Why nowhere else?

  12. #12
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    The long stated reason is that the atomic age created background radiation not previously present which triggered the mutations.
    I’m okay with that. I don’t see a reason to bring space gods into it.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    Then why weren’t there super heroes right through history instead of starting in the 1940’s if it was the Celestials mutations? Why the delay, and why start mutations at sporadic intervals, like the 1940’s, then another spurt in the 1960’s? I just don’t know how that can be explained.
    Don't forget that, per Marvel lore, the Eternals were considered to be the "heroes" of the ancient world. They were mistaken to be one of the mythological gods as a result. And let's not forget characters like the first Black Knight, who was one of the heroic characters of the medieval period. Much later still, we had western heroes, like the Ghost Rider, Red Wolf and others in the 1800s. While it's true that many of these characters had powers that were steeped in mysticism, there were mutants, like Apocalypse and Exodus, in the ancient world, too.

  14. #14
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    Seen in older than Apocalypse, but it's rather implied that many mutants are descended from Apocalypse. Don't really get why Selene and Apocalypse are like they are.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davew128 View Post
    The long stated reason is that the atomic age created background radiation not previously present which triggered the mutations.
    And yet, that perception was not wholly accurate. The Earth routinely is bathed in cosmic energies by virtue of the sun. The planet's magnetic field keeps most of the nasty radiation from solar flares out, but not all of it. Further, there have been quite a few geomagnetic polarity shifts over the Earth's relatively short lifespan, as well as meteroric impacts and geothermal releases of all manner. Any of these could have produced the same externalities that trigger mutagenic changes in living organisms. In fact, in the real world, many of them did.

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