How important is it that Superman is the strongest one there is?

[stargazer01]

Whether you like it or not, Superman is still The Man in popular culture in terms of physical power.

[DochaDocha]

Whether you like it or not, Superman is still The Man in popular culture in terms of physical power.

Damn right. The word "Superman" means something. No point in making him like the 6th toughest hero.

[Killerbee911]

Superman does not need to be "the most" because he is an all around character and when all those things are combine together he is the ultimate hero. All might in Hero Academia proves that character can be most powerful in the universe but since he isn't OP in every area, He is compelling because he can be challenge without everyone having to be planet busters. All Might does not have more modern superman speed and so realistically some characters can challenge him, He also doesn't have ridiculous damage soak of Superman which means All might has to be more careful in fights. With more set definitive limits I can't remember reading a fight yet that set off the my BS meter.

I don't have a problem with Superman being a ridiculous powerful character it just that being mostly earthbound character cause a huge issue for him imo. Thor doesn't have this issue as much you can place him in Asgard stories and never worry about power levels and world destruction. Goku doesn't have this problem he is taken of earth and you never worry about power levels and world destruction. Superman doesn't have this problem when he is used more cosmic situations,You can created endless group of world killing threats and never have worry about still being on earth. Nothing is wrong with character who in most situations is more powerful than everyone except that sometimes in writing them make them forget that way faster or stronger than they are in the story and for some of us that ruins the story.If Superman never interacted with other parts of DC you can easily write him as powerful as you wanted and a lot of Superman rogue gallery is thumpers and quite honestly it is not that hard to challenge him.



The issue exists tho that Superman is in Justice league and other books where he either should solve things pretty much by himself or he is written under his ability so that heroes can be challenged. That is reason I favor easing back Superman abilities and many other heroes instead of playing up the power fantasy. Long term health of character a nerf to something like speed or even power would go along way to better stories imo.It is not a just superman thing on whole superhero comics get a little to carried away with power boost without thinking of the long term effects. It might be cool to write that he can bench press a planet but then on he can bench press a planet.

[LordUltimus]

Which doesn't seem to hurt the least powerful member of the Trinity, now does it?

That's kind of my point. Superman typically doesn't get downplayed to make Batman look better, instead Batman gets upgraded more and more to look incredible. If you did that to Wonder Woman or some other hero, that'd be fine. Again, I'm not saying Superman should be nerfed, I'm saying that the gap between him and the rest of the upper tier DC heroes should be lessened.

[SiegePerilous02]

They're both regulars in the Justice League, and two-thirds of the Trinity.

So? They're not part of each others mythos. That means JL and Trinity stories need to be balanced and well written, but that's it.
Batman being a non-powered individual hasn't prevented him from being the most popular of the three. Superman being slightly more powerful than Wonder Woman isn't a threat to her, the lack of interest in her property by the management is.

That's kind of my point. Superman typically doesn't get downplayed to make Batman look better, instead Batman gets upgraded more and more to look incredible. If you did that to Wonder Woman or some other hero, that'd be fine. Again, I'm not saying Superman should be nerfed, I'm saying that the gap between him and the rest of the upper tier DC heroes should be lessened.

Batman gets upgraded often at the expense of others, particularly Superman, all the time. TDKR, the rush to include Batman in BvS, "the last time you were inspiring was when you were dead," Batman being the hero in Injustice, calling him an idiot for wanting to move the planet in JL: Doom, etc. And Superman's reputation as the most powerful means he's often dragged into other books to be made lesser and prop up the other hero. Johns can be quite guilty of this.

The power gap is already smaller than it used to be. Is him still being at the top really that much of an issue? When will it be enough?
Really, it seems the power gap between Batman and everyone else is stupidly large.

[Jon-El]

Although I love the period from 1986 - 1993, my favorite era is the bronze / silver age. What I liked in the 70’s was Superman was insanely powerful but there were plenty of villains that physically challenged him. This was a Superman that flew through the sun regularly but could be challenged by Metallo, Solomon Grundy, Parasite, or Mongol. There were even a few single appearance villains that pushed him.

To me, he should be among the most powerful characters. Flash is faster but it’s not a huge gap. Green Lantern could possibly defeat him on occasion but it would difficult. Captain Marvel can match him but doesn’t have the array of powers Superman has. Wonder Woman has seen some crazy jumps in power since my time reading the Perez version. I’d assume she could defeat him on occasion because of superior fighting skills but much like Marvel, she can’t match the variety of powers Superman has. Both characters would give him tough battles.

Everything just depends on the writer. As long Superman is portayed semi consistently I’m be fine with it. Just tell a fun story.

[jimmy]

While I don't think Superman should be able to just stomp Darkseid, save perhaps for silver age lunacy, he really did go out like a chump. Everyone loves that "world of cardboard" speech but I can't get into it because he hits Darkseid twice and then gets put down promptly with some deus ex machina. It happens so quickly it comes across more as a joke than anything else.

P*R*E*C*I*S*E*L*Y!! a Cruel Joke - Like someone giving you a birthday cake Â… you can cut it Â… but, you can't have a piece.

It was all set up with the preamble of the "card board speech" which was a great opener for Superman to just bludgeon Darkseid to unconscious and that would have been the PERFECT ENDING with Superman standing on top saying "Not on my world you don't. not today...not EVER!"


Writers really did a dis-service to Superman that day and on that episode!

Although I love the period from 1986 - 1993, my favorite era is the bronze / silver age. What I liked in the 70’s was Superman was insanely powerful but there were plenty of villains that physically challenged him. This was a Superman that flew through the sun regularly but could be challenged by Metallo, Solomon Grundy, Parasite, or Mongol. There were even a few single appearance villains that pushed him.

To me, he should be among the most powerful characters. Flash is faster but it’s not a huge gap. Green Lantern could possibly defeat him on occasion but it would difficult. Captain Marvel can match him but doesn’t have the array of powers Superman has. Wonder Woman has seen some crazy jumps in power since my time reading the Perez version. I’d assume she could defeat him on occasion because of superior fighting skills but much like Marvel, she can’t match the variety of powers Superman has. Both characters would give him tough battles.

Everything just depends on the writer. As long Superman is portayed semi consistently I’m be fine with it. Just tell a fun story.

The along with; too many weakness (IMHO) inconsistency has really been the one of the biggest problems - nerfing him in both physical and mental abilities was a big mistake as the appeal to me of Superman was the array of powers and abilities he brought to the table. In the pantheon of the hero universe -Marvel or DC or who ever else; Superman should be "head and shoulders" above all.


Right on about WW with her crazy jump in powers!

[Agent Z]

What are these "crazy jumps in powers" WW has had since Perez? If anything, she's gotten weaker.

[Osiris-Rex]

Batman gets upgraded often at the expense of others, particularly Superman, all the time. TDKR, the rush to include Batman in BvS, "the last time you were inspiring was when you were dead," Batman being the hero in Injustice, calling him an idiot for wanting to move the planet in JL: Doom, etc. And Superman's reputation as the most powerful means he's often dragged into other books to be made lesser and prop up the other hero. Johns can be quite guilty of this.

The power gap is already smaller than it used to be. Is him still being at the top really that much of an issue? When will it be enough?
Really, it seems the power gap between Batman and everyone else is stupidly large.

It's pretty funny how people complain about Superman just being a jobber on the Supergirl TV show and completely ignore when it happens to Superman vs other characters in all the other media.
I think the main problem is they just don't like Supergirl in general so it is just another excuse to criticize the TV show. If it were The Flash who defeated Superman would they complain as much?

[SiegePerilous02]

It's pretty funny how people complain about Superman just being a jobber on the Supergirl TV show and completely ignore when it happens to Superman vs other characters in all the other media.
I think the main problem is they just don't like Supergirl in general so it is just another excuse to criticize the TV show. If it were The Flash who defeated Superman would they complain as much?

They probably would. It also doesn't mean they dislike Supergirl. Just because you like her doesn't also mean the actual execution was done well. I don't watch any of the CW shows because they look cheap and corny, but the reputation of Supergirl's writing doesn't instill a lot of confidence. If any character is doing to defeat Superman, she's a far better option than most, but that doesn't mean the show did it well or doesn't have an agenda to push.

Plus coupled with other stuff in media, of course they are going to complain about it.

[stargazer01]

They probably would. It also doesn't mean they dislike Supergirl. Just because you like her doesn't also mean the actual execution was done well. I don't watch any of the CW shows because they look cheap and corny, but the reputation of Supergirl's writing doesn't instill a lot of confidence. If any character is doing to defeat Superman, she's a far better option than most, but that doesn't mean the show did it well or doesn't have an agenda to push.

Plus coupled with other stuff in media, of course they are going to complain about it.

I never liked Supergirl, but I started to like her in her new CW show, HOWEVER the writing for the show and also for Superman started to get more and more awful so I got so annoyed and couldn't watch it anymore. The last crossover treatment of Superman really upset me,

"Oh Kara you are so much more stronger than me. You really are! The world doesn't need Superman because there is a Supergirl."


Seriously, how much more heavy handed can this show be?? Terrible.

[SiegePerilous02]

Whether you like it or not, Superman is still The Man in popular culture in terms of physical power.

Damn right. The word "Superman" means something. No point in making him like the 6th toughest hero.

Which is why the general audience weren't bothered by the JL fight or let it negatively cloud their opinions on other characters, despite the fact that it upset internet nerds everywhere who are somehow surprised that Aquaman, Batman and Cyborg are not match for Superman. Wonder Woman is really the only one for whom there was room for debate.

I never liked Supergirl, but I started to like her in her new CW show, HOWEVER the writing for the show and also for Superman started to get more and more awful so I got so annoyed and couldn't watch it anymore. The last crossover treatment of Superman really upset me,

"Oh Kara you are so much more stronger than me. You really are! The world doesn't need Superman because there is a Supergirl."


Seriously, how much more heavy handed can this show be?? Terrible.

The show's reputation for incredibly unsubtle writing is what killed any desire to watch it. Since it's her show, Kara should damn well be the one who saves the day and not Clark, but if he delivered that speech, you have to wonder if the writers intended it to not just be him being humble but genuinely 100% fact.

I do think the actress is a good fit though.

[stargazer01]

Which is why the general audience weren't bothered by the JL fight or let it negatively cloud their opinions on other characters, despite the fact that it upset internet nerds everywhere who are somehow surprised that Aquaman, Batman and Cyborg are not match for Superman. Wonder Woman is really the only one for whom there was room for debate.



The show's reputation for incredibly unsubtle writing is what killed any desire to watch it. Since it's her show, Kara should damn well be the one who saves the day and not Clark, but if he delivered that speech, you have to wonder if the writers intended it to not just be him being humble but genuinely 100% fact.

I do think the actress is a good fit though.

I think they mean it as fact. It's not the first time he says something like that to Kara.

[stargazer01]

Saw this today..

[Kuwagaton]

The problem pre flashpoint wasn't his power level so much as it was coming off stiff, posturing, and maybe insecure.