Originally Posted by
hareluyafan1
Beg your pardon but I must firmly disagree with this.
Firstly, to use your example, Batman has "really lost" multiple times. For example when Swamp Thing beat him to a pulp and then walked away. Batman did not "wind up on top come the last page," he had to concede to Swamp Thing's demands. Or when Azrael beat him senseless, threw him in a freezing river and then ran downstream to fish him out. Again, Batman did not "wind up on top." "Come the last page" he was thawing out at Dr Thompkins place while Azrael was out doing his thing. Or how about how Bronze Tiger defeated him in their first encounter and Batman never won in any of their rematches. A character does not have to be killed to be defeated and they don't always close the story on a winning note.