Superman#8 Discussion & Spoilers

[rpmaluki]

I for one am judging this book on what is on page and not too much on what I expect the characters to act. Life doesn't always work out the way people want regardless of how sensible/ "together" people may have it. There are mistakes made, some avoidable but others not. I can't hate what Bendis is doing so far even if it can always "be better". I'm just waiting for the story to unfold and reach its conclusion before I pass judgment.

[Rakzo]

I think my personal belief/consolation of "At least Bendis writes kids well" officially dies here.

Just as expected, Jon did want to go with his strange grandfather because he wanted sorta "find himself" and I can't help but ask: WHAT KIND OF KID HAS THAT DILEMMA?! What 11 years old wants to "find himself"? This is especially bad once that you compare it to Jon's current appearances in Adventures of the Super Sons where he acts like an actual kid. I mean, I could have accepted this change of character if he was an older teenager but here? Yeah, that's a big NOPE (and let's just say that Bendis' voice for Jon doesn't help the case either).

Speaking of which, the direction of Jon growing-up is still confusing. In fact, this whole direction is confusing because Bendis is basically telling everyone that the whole "leaving the planet with Jor-El" was a bad idea in the first place which is something that pretty much everyone was yelling about and Bendis tries to justify it as that the characters simply made a mistake when their decisions were incredibly forced and out of character. Although I must admit that I got a bit of a laugh when Bendis tried to justify the fact that Lois left his son with a maniac.

Art was good. Aside from that? Good God.

[Man_of_Tomorrow]

Great issue.

I don't care about the plot conviniencies as long as the characterization is so good. The whole point of the book is to test the characters under stress and it really delivers.

Favorite Things:

-Jon's characterization
-Jor-El being sympathetic for the first time since his ressurection by any writer.
-THE CLIFFHANGER!

[Yoda]

Where’s Jor El been shown to be a maniac in this run? Setting aside Oz, which we don’t know how that fits with the Man of Steel continuity, he definitely hasn’t been shown to be anything close to a maniac here. Going on what Bendis has shown Jor El is trying, but having his own trouble finding his place.

I’ll retract my defense if he intentionally dropped them into that black hole, but otherwise his actions are exactly what he said they would be and he’s done nothing so far that’s put Jon in any more danger than Clark did routinely in the last runs or that Jon’s gotten himself into with Damian.

[Sacred Knight]

WHAT KIND OF KID HAS THAT DILEMMA?! What 11 years old wants to "find himself"?

One, 11 is hardly too young for any kid to have some issues. Two, he's a half-Kryptonian kid. He's not your run-of-the-mill boy. Neither was Clark when he was a kid, much as he wanted to be. Right alongside his "normal" upbringing, Clark had time-traveling adventures with friends from the far future that helped his development. I see this as little difference. I fail to see how Bendis choosing to make Jon's alien heritage different in regards to the way he thinks and feels as compared to a regular human kid is at all a problem.

[Korath]

Just as expected, Jon did want to go with his strange grandfather because he wanted sorta "find himself" and I can't help but ask: WHAT KIND OF KID HAS THAT DILEMMA?! What 11 years old wants to "find himself"?

A lot more than you seems to believe.

I had troubles of chronicle self-esteem as far as I can remember. As an eight years old, I sometime secluded myself in my parents rooms because I felt I was a shitstain and had no Worth. Mostly when I felt I wasn't living to my expectations, or when I had a teacher who simply hated my guts and kept destroying my confidence.

I don't see how a kid who learns he may end killing millions while he is the son of the -apparently for his "true fans"- perfect superhero and being rejected by a team he clearly thought very highly off, seems strange and out of character when he suddenly has an opportunity to discover if he's worth something with a distant relative who seems to understand his pain and suffering better than his parents, at least initially.

And citing Adventures of the Supersons as good characterization for anyone is laughable. This book doesn't matter, not because it isn't cannon or anything of the like but because in spite of the cheer insanity of what both Jon and Damian live in there... Clearly, nothing matter. They are never phased by anything, no adventure has any impact on the next. It basically as if those adventures didn't happen to them, considering how they seem impacted.

Where is Jon's urgency to return to his parents now that he's stuck in an unwanted trip in space ?

Either he doesn't care leaving his parents in the dark and go gallivanting into the universe, or he does. And if he does, it has to play a part in his characterization. It is the case in Superman; not in Supersons.

[Kurus]

Great issue.

I don't care about the plot conviniencies as long as the characterization is so good. The whole point of the book is to test the characters under stress and it really delivers.

Favorite Things:

-Jon's characterization
-Jor-El being sympathetic for the first time since his ressurection by any writer.
-THE CLIFFHANGER!

How can the characterization be good if the entire plot depends on the character far stupider then they are normally written?

[king81992]

Which seems weird to me, as the narrative doesn't seem to portray Jor-El as sympathetic.

Jor El comes across as a crazed broken old man here. I find him to be slightly sympathetic.

[Korath]

How can the characterization be good if the entire plot depends on the character far stupider then they are normally written?

That is the question I ask myself when I see Supersons (any version of Tomasi's books) being praised as the highlight of characterization for both Jon and Damian.

[Yoda]

Jor El comes across as a crazed broken old man here. I find him to be slightly sympathetic.

How is he crazed? He’s done nothing Clark wouldn’t do except be more proactive and a little more aloof.

[rpmaluki]

A lot more than you seems to believe.

I had troubles of chronicle self-esteem as far as I can remember. As an eight years old, I sometime secluded myself in my parents rooms because I felt I was a shitstain and had no Worth. Mostly when I felt I wasn't living to my expectations, or when I had a teacher who simply hated my guts and kept destroying my confidence.

I don't see how a kid who learns he may end killing millions while he is the son of the -apparently for his "true fans"- perfect superhero and being rejected by a team he clearly thought very highly off, seems strange and out of character when he suddenly has an opportunity to discover if he's worth something with a distant relative who seems to understand his pain and suffering better than his parents, at least initially.

And citing Adventures of the Supersons as good characterization for anyone is laughable. This book doesn't matter, not because it isn't cannon or anything of the like but because in spite of the cheer insanity of what both Jon and Damian live in there... Clearly, nothing matter. They are never phased by anything, no adventure has any impact on the next. It basically as if those adventures didn't happen to them, considering how they seem impacted.

Where is Jon's urgency to return to his parents now that he's stuck in an unwanted trip in space ?

Either he doesn't care leaving his parents in the dark and go gallivanting into the universe, or he does. And if he does, it has to play a part in his characterization. It is the case in Superman; not in Supersons.

He does (including Damian) want to find his way home but they keep falling deeper and deeper into space. Without breaking down the differences or similarities in characterisations of Tomasi and Bendis, I'd say they feel about the same regarding their time in space, it was fun while it lasted but they desperately want to come home. Tomasi's version does so but suffers from not having any real stakes, it doesn't seem like there's actual consequences for the space ventures gone wrong while Bendis is dealing with the worst thing that could have happened to Jon under Tomasi but he'd lucked out.

He already used the TT rejection to kick start this current arc and I can appreciate it despite the more technical problems plaguing Bendis' writing. I love baby Jon but I also like for my stories to have some weight in dealing with issues (however contrived) in a real way. I don't need Clark, Lois or Jon to be perfect for me to enjoy them. They are not. In fact it's because they aren't perfect at all that makes me love them. Without these occasional little picks in their characterisations, there'd be little story to tell.

[Yoda]

He does (including Damian) want to find his way home but they keep falling deeper and deeper into space. Without breaking down the differences or similarities in characterisations of Tomasi and Bendis, I'd say they feel about the same regarding their time in space, it was fun while it lasted but they desperately want to come home. Tomasi's version does so but suffers from not having any real stakes, it doesn't seem like there's actual consequences for the space ventures gone wrong while Bendis is dealing with the worst thing that could have happened to Jon under Tomasi but he'd lucked out.

He already used the TT rejection to kick start this current arc and I can appreciate it despite the more technical problems plaguing Bendis' writing. I love baby Jon but I also like for my stories to have some weight in dealing with issues (however contrived) in a real way. I don't need Clark, Lois or Jon to be perfect for me to enjoy them. They are not. In fact it's because they aren't perfect at all that makes me love them. Without these occasional little picks in their characterisations, there'd be little story to tell.

Bendis has characterized this arc as being the first real hit in a long line of near misses Lois and Clark have had and that really seems to be true in the context of all the adventures we’ve seen Jon have so far. It was a ton of things that had the potential to be catastrophic but worked out in the end. From the initial Eradicator thing, to the kid Amazo, the suicide planet and apokolips.

As far as characterization, I don’t think it’s that far off. Even Lois isn’t bad so much as rushed (an odd criticism of Bendis, Mr. Decompression) and we don’t have the benefit of her motivations being clear. Bendis just doesn’t have Lois’ voice down for me, but he’s getting better. This issue in particular has gone a long way to correct the criticism I’ve had of the last few issues.

[rpmaluki]

Bendis has characterized this arc as being the first real hit in a long line of near misses Lois and Clark have had and that really seems to be true in the context of all the adventures we’ve seen Jon have so far. It was a ton of things that had the potential to be catastrophic but worked out in the end. From the initial Eradicator thing, to the kid Amazo, the suicide planet and apokolips.

As far as characterization, I don’t think it’s that far off. Even Lois isn’t bad so much as rushed (an odd criticism of Bendis, Mr. Decompression) and we don’t have the benefit of her motivations being clear. Bendis just doesn’t have Lois’ voice down for me, but he’s getting better. This issue in particular has gone a long way to correct the criticism I’ve had of the last few issues.

This is definitely the better issue for me. For Bendis, I'd say it was near perfect, although I could have done without Mongul conveniently showing at the former FoS site for Superman to punch him into next week. That felt so random, kind of like the first issue when Clark went into outer space trying to find his family and bumped into a convenient alien armada (forgot their name) heading towards earth. I liked how he reasoned that he can't just punch a space rock because consequences but I hate the easy fix provided nonetheless.

[Miles To Go]

How did editorial not pick up on this?

[Superlad93]

Damn fine comic right here. Damn fine.

* I love that in his roughly seven years of space travel and adventure one of the biggest worries he kept coming back to "I can only imagine how my parents are gonna feel." I really dig how he's trying to focus on the positive implications of him being able to finding his way home at all.

* Really dug the Lois and Clark back and forth here. Their banter's practically dripping with barely held back emotion.

* I really like the implications Bendis is making with the complicated feelings Clark has for his father.

* It'd be cool if this fight with Mongul is also the one we see in Naomi? Poor jaundice fool never saw it coming. He probably thought he was gonna scavenge some cool stuff from the Fortress, or find a dead Superman maybe.

* Sign me all the way up for Jon and Jor teaming up with what seems to be literal dragons (and a water guy) to fend of hawk people.

* What's that cool purple construct around Jon's arm? I see no purple lanterns, or tech on Jon's arm or body, and no one else seems to have anything similar. New power?

* I'd idea very easily read a whole ongoing of Jon and Jor-El's Rick and Morty style adventures that transitioned to Jon's solo adventures in space.

* Super down for sympathetic Jor-El. This is Jon's POV of the events, and now I want Jor-El's too.