Year of The Villain- DC's 2019/2020 Initiative

[Truman Burbank]

I guess Geoff Johns needed more time to finish Dooms Day Clock

Doomsday Clock's only relevance now is as its own story. DiDio Comics has no use for it.

[liwanag]

I guess Geoff Johns needed more time to finish Dooms Day Clock

i guess so. or hasn't geoff already finished the story, and the delays are because of other reasons (which i have no idea of).

[MajorHoy]

i guess so. or hasn't geoff already finished the story . . .

Do you have a source for where it says he had already completed the scripts through issue #12?

[liwanag]

Do you have a source for where it says he had already completed the scripts through issue #12?

sorry, but no. i was just wondering if geoff already finished the story.

i imagine the art takes a longer process... but i wonder if there are other reasons for the delays.

[MajorHoy]

sorry, but no. i was just wondering if geoff already finished the story.

i imagine the art takes a longer process... but i wonder if there are other reasons for the delays.

Art is a long process, and any delays / later revisions to the script will throw off when the artwork can be completed in time (unless you're a Rob Liefeld and will ink your artwork while you're also driving a car).

[Franny6422]

Hang on, I have been here before 'Forever Evil' anyone? Didio is definitely back in the driving seat, after John's saved him' now 'sales' & popularity will decline again!? I don't get' DC was on a 'high' steamrolling ahead of the competition and now' set to make (making) all the same moves to losing sales. Anyone can see that! What are the executives thinking? Don't give Didio total creative editorial control, he had his shot at a new initiative & direction, and long-term started declining sales. He needs to be reined in. He must had really ate 'humble pie' with the 'Rebirth' initiative. Bet it wasn't't even going to be a soft reboot initially and was all set to erased the 'New 52.' Why is he being pandered to? Can't believe we have lost so much already. Prime example, that glorious Superman family vibe, decimated! What!? All the potential of seeing Jon & Damien growing-up and learning off each other. Years of potential storylines, wiped!? It's criminal now' how 'Rebirth' is being squandered. Just beggars belief! Now I don't believe Didio is totally incompetent, indeed he has delivered many a good thing, but I do believe he shouldn't't be given carte Blanche in regards to the DCU, he needs someone to rein in his worst excesses. Jim Lee Isn't that person. Oh' well, they'll learn the hard way and folks won't be coaxed back this time with a 'Rebirth 2.' So go ahead Didio, seems you're hellbent on getting your own way, detrimental to the company sales and status. Just beggars belief' the situation.

[Korath]

Hang on, I have been here before 'Forever Evil' anyone? Didio is definitely back in the driving seat, after John's saved him' now 'sales' & popularity will decline again!? I don't get' DC was on a 'high' steamrolling ahead of the competition and now' set to make (making) all the same moves to losing sales. Anyone can see that! What are the executives thinking? Don't give Didio total creative editorial control, he had his shot at a new initiative & direction, and long-term started declining sales. He needs to be reined in. He must had really ate 'humble pie' with the 'Rebirth' initiative. Bet it wasn't't even going to be a soft reboot initially and was all set to erased the 'New 52.' Why is he being pandered to? Can't believe we have lost so much already. Prime example, that glorious Superman family vibe, decimated! What!? All the potential of seeing Jon & Damien growing-up and learning off each other. Years of potential storylines, wiped!? It's criminal now' how 'Rebirth' is being squandered. Just beggars belief! Now I don't believe Didio is totally incompetent, indeed he has delivered many a good thing, but I do believe he shouldn't't be given carte Blanche in regards to the DCU, he needs someone to rein in his worst excesses. Jim Lee Isn't that person. Oh' well, they'll learn the hard way and folks won't be coaxed back this time with a 'Rebirth 2.' So go ahead Didio, seems you're hellbent on getting your own way, detrimental to the company sales and status. Just beggars belief' the situation.

Or perhaps that rebirth proved unable to sustain long term growth, as it was pretty obvious it would when the "not a reboot" totally turned into one and banked only on nostalgia and lapsed older reader who lose it if the properties they like aren't used exactly like they were before.

Just look at the sales of the new properties at DC and you'll understand why Rebirth would never be that, well, rebirth, for DC, not in the long run.

[Franny6422]

Hang on, I have been here before 'Forever Evil' anyone? Didio is definitely back in the driving seat, after John's saved him' now 'sales' & popularity will decline again!? I don't get' DC was on a 'high' steamroller ahead of the competition and now' set to make (making) all the same moves to losing sales. Anyone can see that! What are the executives thinking? Don't give Didio total creative editorial control, he had his shot at a new initiative & direction, and long-term started declining sales. He needs to be reined in. He must had really ate 'humble pie' with the 'Rebirth' initiative. Bet it wasn't't even going to be a soft reboot initially and was all set to erased the 'New 52.' Why is he being pandered to? Can't believe he have lost so my h already. Prime example, that glorious Superman family vibe, decimated! What!? All the potential of seeing Jon & Damien growing-up and learning off each other. Years of potential storylines, wiped!? It's criminal now' how 'Rebirth' is being squandered. Just beggars belief! Now I don't believe Didio is totally incompetent, indeed he has delivered many a good thing, but I do believe he shouldn't't be given carte Blanche in regards to the DCU, he needs someone to rein in his worst excesses. Jim Lee Isn't that person. Oh' well, they'll learn the hard way and folks won't be coaxed back this time with a 'Rebirth 2.' Do go ahead Didio, seems you're wellbeing on getting your own way, detrimental to the company sales and status. Just beggars belief' the situation.

[failo.legendkiller]

Zero interest in everything Scott Snyder is writing, I don't care about his Justice League, Legion of Doom and most of all Batman who laughs and similar bullshits.
It's a great pass for me, as almost all of DC is publishing now.

[Miles To Go]

that glorious Superman family vibe, decimated!.

The Super Family hasn't been 'decimated', going through some hardships and drama isn't decimation. Jon is still Jon despite his advanced age, Lois and Clark still love each despite their new situation and are in constant (and intimate) communication.

Or perhaps that rebirth proved unable to sustain long term growth, as it was pretty obvious it would when the "not a reboot" totally turned into one and banked only on nostalgia and lapsed older reader who lose it if the properties they like aren't used exactly like they were before.

Just look at the sales of the new properties at DC and you'll understand why Rebirth would never be that, well, rebirth, for DC, not in the long run.

Please, we all know who's horse you've backed over the years...you may point out you're getting somewhere at last with Bendis but even his sales haven't exactly steller, in fact it's been dropping at a considerably faster rate than the wholesome Tomasi and Jurgens Rebirth runs you hate so much. Ditto for Heroes In Crisis compared to Doomsday Clock, which is the epilogue to Rebirth

[Korath]

Please, we all know who's horse you've backed over the years...you may point out you're getting somewhere at last with Bendis but even his sales haven't exactly steller, in fact it's been dropping at a considerably faster rate than the Tomasi and Jurgens Rebirth runs you hate so much. Ditto for Heroes In Crisis compared to Doomsday Clock, which is the epilogue to Rebirth

They are dropping because nostalgia fanatics can't take a change. Bendis's work is at least as good as early Rebirth Tomasi, except that it's not what the vast majority of the Superman readership wants, because he isn't playing it safe by pushing the unidimensional perfect family trope that is attached to the Clark and Lois couple.

I'll also point out that i don't like HiC. It's better than Doomsday Clock only because it has a story to tell, however badly it does so and however bad that story is. Doomsday Clock is full of hot air. A very pretty technical feat, but nothing much in term of story. Which sums up why DC is currently tanking : its readership favor no story at all over stories which take risks (and sometimes fail) because it allows them to cling to Nostalgia. It's not a trand started with Rebirth, or even the New 52, but it's definitively a strong element of DC's fanbase, and it is neither sustainable in the long run, nor healthy for the properties.

[Franny6422]

Sorry to to I disagree 'Miles to go' Jon Isn't still Jon, he was approximately 10 now 17' he won't acting in the manner of a ten year old. Different character in all, but name. Plus no natural progression, he's now older. All those potential storylines that could deal with a ten year old entering his teens, gone. So 'decimated' is the word I still use. Why practically split Clark & Lois' all of a sudden. Bendis isn't building upon what came before, he's totally reinventing. Even tampering with mythology already set, not introducing much noticeable of his own.

[failo.legendkiller]

I'll also point out that i don't like HiC. It's better than Doomsday Clock only because it has a story to tell, however badly it does so and however bad that story is. Doomsday Clock is full of hot air.

Sorry mate, we often disagree but this is too big to pass without arguing about.
How could you say it's only hot air? The origin of Mime & Marionette alone are better in characterization of almost everything you could find in HIC, speaking about something not related to Nostalgia as you said.
Enough to say that all the book , although not concluded exactly as HIC, is far better in storytelling ,depth of characters and dialogues.
I love most of King works but HIC is really poor, bad dialogues, incoherent scripting and fulled with useless deaths.
We could change opinion when both are concluded, but at the moment there's no way to compare them.

[Jekyll]

More money in my pocket. I have zero interest in modern day DC and their new ideas further drive my interest lower.

[Korath]

Sorry mate, we often disagree but this is too big to pass without arguing about.
How could you say it's only hot air? The origin of Mime & Marionette alone are better in characterization of almost everything you could find in HIC, speaking about something not related to Nostalgia as you said.
Enough to say that all the book , although not concluded exactly as HIC, is far better in storytelling ,depth of characters and dialogues.
I love most of King works but HIC is really poor, bad dialogues, incoherent scripting and fulled with useless deaths.
We could change opinion when both are concluded, but at the moment there's no way to compare them.

What's the story of Doomsday Clock ?

More accurately, what is the story of Doomsday Clock as presented in the books as opposed to what the readership knows from interviews, rumors, etc ?

At best, a mess. Nothing makes sense in Doomsday Clock. Nothing.

How can Rorsharch II, Ozymandias, Mime and Marionette travel the Multiverse so easily ? Not explained.

Why has DC World's turned so violently against it's heroes ? Not explained.

What's the plot, the overaching storyline of Doomsday Clock ? Not explained.

Mime and Marionette may be interesting characters and concept, but their raison d'être in the story is, again, not explained. They seek they kid, hence why they jumped into another Universe ? How does it make sense ? It doesn't.

Jones' doesn't try to craft a story, he tries to grasp the spirit of Watchman, its vibe. Unarguably, he succeeds, but it's at the cost of an actual plot being used and proposed to the reader. Watchamn is extremely simple in its central plot : someone is killing former vigilantes and some of them seek him out. Then it branches into a deep conspiracy and how it affects those characters. But even when it seems to stray from the main plot, it's still always there, because all those characters are either back in their costumes or out in the open because of how the Comedian was killed.

In Doomsday Clock, were are 8 issues out of 12 in it and we don't know how Comedian was brought back to life, what Manhattan truly wants, how Ozymandias knew where to find him, why he chose Mime and Marionette. Nothing, not even a hint. And that's discounting the JSA and LOS plot which is, frankly, completely disconnected so far from the main plot.

HiC's first issues weren't just bad, they were terrible. I only started to warm to it in the last issue because I felt that King finally put his A-Game into it. But even from the start, I knew what the story was, per the book : a massacre has happened in Sanctuary, the culprit must be found and stop, and the heroes must deal with the after-effects of this event.

it may not be a good story, but at least it exist, it's a simple foundation which can be built upon and allow for moment of greatness (Superman's speech in the last issue) even if it also allows terrible moment (basically, Superman and Lois before the speech had been utterly terrible in the story).

Both HiC and DDC are far from good, but the former has the potential to still save itself, while the latter is both over-ambitious and far too light in actual story-telling for my taste.