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  1. #16
    Mighty Member
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    Willingness to work has always been and will always be irrelevant, the real question is whether you have the necessary skills to be employed productively or not. And the number of people who fail to meet that threshold is larger than you think, because American work culture dictates that people must ALWAYS "earn" their living, even if their labor is slow and inefficient and the products they make are unwanted, and we would really be better off paying them to stay home.

    Also, being willing to work hard doesn't necessarily make someone good, a perfect example would be all of those coal miners, whose desire to continue risking their health to mine coal might seem admirable, but is really quite selfish because the market, never mind the environment, has already dictated that it doesn't want any more coal to be mined. They and the rest of society would really be much better off under a UBI scheme that paid them to stay home and actually prohibited them from trying to get back into the coal business.

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member Tendrin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PwrdOn View Post
    Willingness to work has always been and will always be irrelevant, the real question is whether you have the necessary skills to be employed productively or not. And the number of people who fail to meet that threshold is larger than you think, because American work culture dictates that people must ALWAYS "earn" their living, even if their labor is slow and inefficient and the products they make are unwanted, and we would really be better off paying them to stay home.

    Also, being willing to work hard doesn't necessarily make someone good, a perfect example would be all of those coal miners, whose desire to continue risking their health to mine coal might seem admirable, but is really quite selfish because the market, never mind the environment, has already dictated that it doesn't want any more coal to be mined. They and the rest of society would really be much better off under a UBI scheme that paid them to stay home and actually prohibited them from trying to get back into the coal business.
    American work culture is absurd.

  3. #18
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    Always trust the government. If you can't trust the government to take care of your basic needs, who can you trust? You can't even trust yourself

  4. #19
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    The govt should provide the people with comic books.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    Always trust the government. If you can't trust the government to take care of your basic needs, who can you trust? You can't even trust yourself
    Your Tinfoil hat is showing.

    But yes with Automation on the risre it'll be inevitable.

  6. #21
    New old guy Surf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    The govt should provide the people with comic books.
    Or at least some type of voucher, I'd settle for boards and bags.
    Beefing up the old home security, huh?
    You bet yer ass.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member Tuck's Avatar
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    We already have the EIC (which itself essentially comes from conservative economist Milton Friedman's ideas about implementing a negative income tax). The idea of implementing something like a UBI has been around since at least the 60s, and has always had proponents on the right and left.

    Going from the EIC to a UBI is just an expansion, taking out the work requirements. When you consider that raising children is a social good that holds benefits for society at large, as well as the economy in the long run, the idea that a stay-at-home parent shouldn't be considered to be working is an archaic concept that has more to do with the advent of money; how and why it developed than with any reasonable assessment.

    Consumer capitalism needs consumers. An ongoing "helicopter drop" could actually help the economy at large (there's a reason a lot of businesses support the UBI).

    The Devil's in the details.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    The government wont.

    The government doesn't even give a rats ass about kids being shot in schools, what makes you think they would care about the people who can't work? It frankly comes down to private entities willing to step up and help the people get back on their feet as dear old Uncle Sam wont. Private entities would have to come up with a system to house people, gain food, present a power system, transportation, and possess a learning center to teach required skills or partner with an entity that can. This would also require land to do so and I don't recall that building initiative Trump prattled on about ever coming into fruition.

    The unfortunate reality is that there is no indication that the Government actually gives enough of a damn to do so let alone protect the people beyond Juan at the border.
    Here's something you should watch out for. https://www.activistpost.com/2014/02...trolls-on.html

  9. #24
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    The contract for the US is that the government is supposed to foster life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    Personally I don't see anything liberating or free about receiving money from the government, as there are always strings attached. But it does provide a chance for the pursuit of happiness and can save lives as well. So I'm for it overall, but do think there needs to be a viable path towards liberation from it as well.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  10. #25
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    The govt should provide the people with comic books.
    I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

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