Psylocke/Betsy looks just like Revanche/Kwannon again, in Age of Xman

[Havok83]

Here's the rub. You CAN Make Captain Britain another ethnicity, WITHOUT getting rid of Brians and Betsy' past just to appease some who like a fake Asian half naked ninja chick. You literally can have Kwannon get under a good writer like Lieu or Wilson, and have her star rise. I'd say that what GWW did for Kamala is one of the reasons characters like her, Squirrel Girl, and Moon Girl are successes. I'd go so far to say that Under a good writer, Kwannon could surpass Psylocke. BUT, her connection to the X-men leaves no room for real growth.
To grow and become more than an ACTUAL Ninja chick, she needs to move away from Psylocke. Psylis popular, but on her own is B-C tier at best. Not because she's a bad character. But because her tropes clung to her like a bad smell. Now she can move beyond that, remain Psylocke and grow under better writers.

Let Brian retire or take command of the reformed Corp, let Faiza become the new and Permanent CB. I'd be all over that.

I think the better thing would be to just create another new character. I wish Kwannon the best but she has too much baggage and is intrinsically tied to Psylocke. I dont believe she'll ever be able to escape that. You say Psylocke is a B tier character at best, do you honestly believe Kwannon ever has a shot at being A-list over her? Really?

[Tazirai]

I think the better thing would be to just create another new character. I wish Kwannon the best but she has too much baggage and is intrinsically tied to Psylocke. I dont believe she'll ever be able to escape that. You say Psylocke is a B tier character at best, do you honestly believe Kwannon ever has a shot at being A-list over her? Really?

In Current Marvel? No, you'd be correct. I was having pipe dreams and hope that Marvel gives a damn. I mean they took Captain American, and turned him into a Nazi... Marvel comics give me no hope.
They literally just wiped out some mutants AGAIN.
There's an alternate universe where Marvel gives a ****.

[MetalPsyc]

Here's the rub. You CAN Make Captain Britain another ethnicity, WITHOUT getting rid of Brians and Betsy' past just to appease some who like a fake Asian half naked ninja chick. You literally can have Kwannon get under a good writer like Lieu or Wilson, and have her star rise. I'd say that what GWW did for Kamala is one of the reasons characters like her, Squirrel Girl, and Moon Girl are successes. I'd go so far to say that Under a good writer, Kwannon could surpass Psylocke. BUT, her connection to the X-men leaves no room for real growth.
To grow and become more than an ACTUAL Ninja chick, she needs to move away from Psylocke. Psylis popular, but on her own is B-C tier at best. Not because she's a bad character. But because her tropes clung to her like a bad smell. Now she can move beyond that, remain Psylocke and grow under better writers.

Let Brian retire or take command of the reformed Corp, let Faiza become the new and Permanent CB. I'd be all over that.

Preach Taz.
It's so sad to see that Kwannon returned just to be "the formerly known as Psylocke"

I think the better thing would be to just create another new character. I wish Kwannon the best but she has too much baggage and is intrinsically tied to Psylocke. I dont believe she'll ever be able to escape that. You say Psylocke is a B tier character at best, do you honestly believe Kwannon ever has a shot at being A-list over her? Really?

Couldn't agree more. I have nothing against the character but bringing her back just add another mess to the current situation. Kwannon was created as a mistake. Her creator admitted it and fixed it. Her story was done.
If Marvel want an asian female ninja, they could create another new character.

But I think Marvel still can fix this mess by giving Kwannon her own identity and move away from Psylocke. Scrap the Psylocke look, signature power, etc from her. Kwannon's OG looks is pretty much up for grabs for artists to create.

[Kurolegacy]

Problem there is that Kwannon is tied too deeply to Psylocke especially considering her very existence is basically a byproduct of Psylocke’s own narrative. At that point, you might as well try to separate Stryfe from Cable or Maddie from Jean. Kwannon is basically the other side of the same coin of Psylocke and Marvel has shown with how things always end up snapping back into status quo no matter how a character develops just how lazy they are with actually committing to character growth that strays away from status quo.

[Big Joe]

Also, in terms of ACTUAL Political correctness. Take trump for example. He LOVES Political Correctness because you have to agree with his view or you're considered fake or false.

Yes, actually I think that's part of the point I'm trying to make. Political Correctness is used by the establishment and the media, and twisted to suit their own ends. They seem to try to create an uproar about things that aren't really a massive deal, complain when their agenda isn't being followed that "PC has gone mad", and continue with their far right agenda regardless, whilst claiming reporting of what is happening is fake news.

If I'm honest it isn't the appearance of any single character that is a problem, it is that there are too few minority characters. I realise that some might say that the numbers are reasonably representative of each minority in real life America (although I have no idea of American demographics to be fair), but again that isn't my point. I believe there must be larger numbers of all minorities, I think they must be over represented in all cases if we are to see any attempt to normalise an inherently prejudiced society. An issue here is that a female character from a minority ethnic community, who was high profile, has been turned back to being white and the minority ethnic replacement for her is nowhere near so high profile. In my view that is a retrograde step, and it undermines some of the half decent work Marvel have done over the past few years.

[Psy]

Also, in terms of ACTUAL Political correctness. Take trump for example. He LOVES Political Correctness because you have to agree with his view or you're considered fake or false.
Asking for a white woman to be returned to her own body because some people it's icky, is NOT Political correctness no matter how you try and twist it.

The Politically correct thing would have been to ignore people and leave her as is. That's how Political Correctness works. You agree with the status quo or be punished in some way.
Status Quo is "Psylocke is only popular being a half-naked Asian chick, forget she was white, let's alter her past to make people happy with her being Asian, anyone who doesn't like it is an SJW."

The Anti-PC thing is to return her to form.

Lmao, this is hilarious considering I just proved your definition wrong with the ACTUAL definition.

Here it is again, The term political correctness is used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.

It is in FACT not a term limited to the social economic realm of government. It's a general term used throughout society as a whole. How is this that hard to grasp. Google it for goodness sakes.


They changed Psylocke due to pressure from groups who were offended. So Marvel did the POLITICALLY CORRECT thing. Not a government term lol. And changed her to being white. Regardless of how horse shoe they shoved it on us.

Also because I am a fan of logic. The politically correct thing is not what the majority want. The politically correct thing to do is to be non offensive and sympathetic to those offended. So if they changed Psylocke due to an offense. Even if it was the minority offended. That in fact is an act of Political Correctness. Lol....
Thankssssssssss

[Big Joe]

Here it is again, The term political correctness is used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.

Yes, that is what it is, but the term, its uses and what it is meant to avoid have been hijacked. The term itself is ridiculed, things that might offend are complained about as being nonsense. A particular thing that happens this time every year in the UK is there is a debate (I really should say rant) about chocolate eggs at Easter, and that confectionery companies have taken the word Easter off their eggs for fear of offending Muslims. The claim is that it has been done because it is politically correct. This, of course, is rubbish, I personally can't remember the word Easter being on my eggs 45 or 50 years ago, but this crap persists, pushed by the right wing press. That is why I really dislike the term.

[Psy]

Yes, that is what it is, but the term, its uses and what it is meant to avoid have been hijacked. The term itself is ridiculed, things that might offend are complained about as being nonsense. A particular thing that happens this time every year in the UK is there is a debate (I really should say rant) about chocolate eggs at Easter, and that confectionery companies have taken the word Easter off their eggs for fear of offending Muslims. The claim is that it has been done because it is politically correct. This, of course, is rubbish, I personally can't remember the word Easter being on my eggs 45 or 50 years ago, but this crap persists, pushed by the right wing press. That is why I really dislike the term.

Not my point, my point and only point is, I in fact was using the term correctly and it is not used for government policies only. It is rather a term that was born in the 80's for social justice.

Someone constantly comes for me over this stupid crap. I used the term correctly. Move on.....

[Big Joe]

Not my point, my point and only point is, I in fact was using the term correctly and it is not used for government policies only. It is rather a term that was born in the 80's for social justice.

Someone constantly comes for me over this stupid crap. I used the term correctly. Move on.....

I thought I was agreeing with you, not arguing. Let me be a little less obscure then, I agree that your definition of political correctness is, well, correct.

I think you've got hold of the wrong end of the stick if you think either Tazirai or I were "coming for you". I think both of us were saying that you're right in your definition, but the reality is that it has been subverted. I may be wrong about Taz, but that was one of the points I was trying to make.

[Triniking1234]

Since you all like Kwannon so much, look forward to her starring as Evil Betsy in Rosenberg's Uncanny.

[Shadowcat]

Let Kwannon become the new Vice lord of Madripoor, and bring Tiger Tyger, and Shinobi Shaw into her group. Maybe make them the Madripoor chapter of the Hellfire Club. We could bring back Reeva Payge too.

[Kurolegacy]

Yes, actually I think that's part of the point I'm trying to make. Political Correctness is used by the establishment and the media, and twisted to suit their own ends. They seem to try to create an uproar about things that aren't really a massive deal, complain when their agenda isn't being followed that "PC has gone mad", and continue with their far right agenda regardless, whilst claiming reporting of what is happening is fake news.

If I'm honest it isn't the appearance of any single character that is a problem, it is that there are too few minority characters. I realise that some might say that the numbers are reasonably representative of each minority in real life America (although I have no idea of American demographics to be fair), but again that isn't my point. I believe there must be larger numbers of all minorities, I think they must be over represented in all cases if we are to see any attempt to normalise an inherently prejudiced society. An issue here is that a female character from a minority ethnic community, who was high profile, has been turned back to being white and the minority ethnic replacement for her is nowhere near so high profile. In my view that is a retrograde step, and it undermines some of the half decent work Marvel have done over the past few years.

Honestly, as an African-American comic reader, when it comes to the prospect of placing so much emphasis on ethnicity/sexuality/gender, I'm more inclined to agree with this guy who I find does bring up a good point when it comes to finding common ground beyond just the superficial:

[Tazirai]

Honestly, as an African-American comic reader, when it comes to the prospect of placing so much emphasis on ethnicity/sexuality/gender, I'm more inclined to agree with this guy who I find does bring up a good point when it comes to finding common ground beyond just the superficial:

As a black guy. I don't like this dude simply because he shares a lot of alt-right. PC Anti-SJW crap in his videos. Some are decent, some not. When somebody uses leftist or SJW frequently. I tend not to take them as seriously.
Like when people say Psylocke was changed back to being her ORIGINAL self because of Political Correctness, or that she should be a certain Gender type because she had sex ONCE with her boyfriend as a female.

People see themselves in her, but to me, It's not retrograde to make the white woman back into a white woman. While hopefully giving the chance for the ACTUAL Asian woman with her own untold stories and history to come forth under a good writer.

People who don't want to give Kwannon a chance, or want to make her a villain for some silly reason. It's on them.

[BroHomo]

First of all I disagree with everything you've said. I'll also point out I don't create offensive crap, I am defending the ordained right to freedom of speech and expression.

Well there are texts written for people the creator doesn't know soooooooo. And I wasn't accusing you of creating offensive crap. You defend freedom of speech but shut down people who complain???

. That's it. If you don't like something and are offended. That's on you. You do not get the ability to police others works. Don't like it, don't support it. Anything more ,ie bullying and complaining, is completely and utterly unbecoming.

Buuuuut isn't the complaining of PC changes the same thing and therefore unbecoming?? lol

I'll put it to you this way. Adolf Hitler is a POS but Mein Kempf is literary genius and a gods send in dealing with charming sociopaths. You see, his bigoted rhetoric helps us with dealing with common issues like that today. We wouldn't burn his book that brings us knowledge and information just because he and his ideas were bigoted. Same thing. Every piece of art deserves its existence. Whether you agree or not will not stop people from expressing themselves freely. You'll have to deal with it like a healthy adult. Sorry.

Uh if that's what you get outta Hitler's worldwide impact theeeen....

Furthermore no, you can keep your PC BS. I love being non PC. I am a Gay Native American. I grew up in an all white suburb of an Ivy league school. I was also very poor. I know what it's like to be bullied every single moment of my life.

Errr perhaps being so brazenly "Un-PC" led to the bullying?

If I can let go of the stupidity of political correctness and embrace the good that comes from humor created from situations unfamiliar. Then anyone can. Grow up, your feelings are your own and have no authority what so ever in anyone else's life at all.. All art is art. The fact I have to say that is absurd. ALL ART IS ART.

Yes because as we know Humans operate on identical mental strength and emotional stability

beyond just the superficial:[/B]

A person's ethnicity/gender/sexuality goes far deeper than the superficial....tooootally not saying that women/Queers/ black/brown etc individuals have to be buddies. But it's not the Same as having the same hair color or being from the same City

the video never really explained why it's a Negative for kids to see different people represented in various media outlets

[Kurolegacy]

As a black guy. I don't like this dude simply because he shares a lot of alt-right. PC Anti-SJW crap in his videos. Some are decent, some not. When somebody uses leftist or SJW frequently. I tend not to take them as seriously.
Like when people say Psylocke was changed back to being her ORIGINAL self because of Political Correctness, or that she should be a certain Gender type because she had sex ONCE with her boyfriend as a female.

People see themselves in her, but to me, It's not retrograde to make the white woman back into a white woman. While hopefully giving the chance for the ACTUAL Asian woman with her own untold stories and history to come forth under a good writer.

People who don't want to give Kwannon a chance, or want to make her a villain for some silly reason. It's on them.

That seems to be the direction Marvel themselves are looking to take her considering that her first appearance since MiM is setting her up as a part of the Mutant Liberation Front, a terrorist group.

As for Psylocke's whole situation, I never viewed her in the sense of race due to her being basically being a product of comic book science. Nothing about her situation is representative of anything or anyone. Hell if you want to get technical, if people wanted to write Kwannon, whatever body Betsy is in has no bearing on it considering that at this point, that's not even the original body. Hell we've seen characters return in newly created bodies before, nothing was stopping them from doing it with her. Problem is, Kwannon is basically a byproduct of Psylocke's story and as a result, she can't really be separated from that. Even with her making her first appearance in a story having nothing to do with Psylocke, she's still being mentioned in comparison to her.