Psylocke/Betsy looks just like Revanche/Kwannon again, in Age of Xman

[BroHomo]

To a point though some put everything that they hated about Psylocke onto Kwannon, some try to make her something that she isn't, mostly she's a blank slate that so far Marvel hasn't done much to make her into anything and Betsy not much more really...even after going back to a new original body...so far the new bodyswap seems to have been done more for pc reasons than a real storyline involved in it...

And??? It's not like the X-Men are crapping out Eisner winning story's on the reg. I Don't get why it'd be bad changing a comicbook char story change because of PC Culture. it's bad to be less offensive????

Let’s be perfectly honest with ourselves, that’s basically the only reason they did it. There was no real grand story beyond it.

Again why's it bad to make something less offensive? What was the Grand design behind Wolverine going feral and losing his nose? lol

Especially since it was done in a throwaway mini that got little to no press outside of that, so they slipped it in under the radar and then let it drop really...

Definitely wouldnt be a strong enough Story to warrant as much attention as Wolverines getting ...and even his resurrection is staaaaale

Just so people know. Using the term PC to explain things you can't explain is a bogus argument. Especially when the terms PC and SJW are used together. Those people tend to not have very well thought out arguments. Because you can explain away your disagreement as this was done because PC reasons.

At least try to explain your point.

yes!!!

[Kurolegacy]

Honestly I will never really buy the whole thing of Psylocke was legitimately offensive especially when such a status persisted for decades to the point of being the iconic interpretation of the character. Had it literally been something as offensive as people try to make it out to be, such a thing would have been dealt with swiftly and never spoken of again such as the time Punisher was turned black as such a thing would reflect badly in the company. As presented in the last Psylocke thread, we had Asian posters who at no point found her to be offensive. The whole thing just feels more like certain people were feeling offended for others and even then, it was a small margin. Really the whole change just seemed like it came from someone who didn’t like her status and basically used their status as writer to change it. It’s basi a matter that when one gets into a position where the power is in their hands, they start making the changes that they want so long as they can get the right clearance without any actual plan beyond that.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

They changed Betsy not because they had an interesting or exciting storyline to tell about it and wanted to develop Betsy's characterization through said storyline but because some fans didn't like it...again I never viewed the Asian Betsy as offensive, some writers may have gone overboard but the concept wasn't imho at it's base...and so far there's been little to nothing about her change since so Marvel isn't really seeming to care about the change other than to have made it...

[JuanLaban]

What is the Reason they reverted Psylocke’s race?

Two Words, One Name: Akira Yoshida

[Killerbee911]

Honestly I will never really buy the whole thing of Psylocke was legitimately offensive especially when such a status persisted for decades to the point of being the iconic interpretation of the character. Had it literally been something as offensive as people try to make it out to be, such a thing would have been dealt with swiftly and never spoken of again such as the time Punisher was turned black as such a thing would reflect badly in the company. As presented in the last Psylocke thread, we had Asian posters who at no point found her to be offensive. The whole thing just feels more like certain people were feeling offended for others and even then, it was a small margin. Really the whole change just seemed like it came from someone who didn’t like her status and basically used their status as writer to change it. It’s basi a matter that when one gets into a position where the power is in their hands, they start making the changes that they want so long as they can get the right clearance without any actual plan beyond that.

You don't buy at as offensive because it wasn't changed? That is like saying Blackface and Yellowface are fine because it was done for decades in movies . And just because some people aren't offended doesn't mean it is not the right move to change it. Some Native Americans are fine with Redskins but we all know that if you tried to name a team the Black Skins or Yellow Skin today,It would be shut down immediately. Who is right? The Native Americans who are upset at it or the Native Americans who are not.. In situation like that simple solution is just to remove the issue,so what if it is "PC" you remove something that bother enough people that is one less problem you have deal with.

Culture changes and things acceptable in past aren't as acceptable today. Movies like 16 candles and revenge of the nerds have clear date rape in it, American Pie has slang about homosexuals that wouldn't happen today.Those were popular comedies in the past and social standards have either changed or we just final start to listen to voices who didn't have a voice then. Whether it is offensive or similiar to be something offensive, why keep something around when you can fix the issue and move on? Psylocke might have not been problematic in vacuum I mean Alter Carbon plays with same type of thing and nobody is offended at that show. But it is not a vacuum in a world where representation in slim for Asian characters at times,It is problematic that highest profile character Asian character is/was british white woman. In world where Hollywood casted white men and women as Asian as recently Scarlet Jo in Ghost in Shell, Tidla Swinton in Dr Strange or Emma stone in Aloha you can see why might be seen as problematic to have a similar enough situation in your comics,In a world where Asian women are festishized you just dodge a double bullet by not having that possibility happen with pyslocke back in her old body.

Us fans have talk about this before and it wasn't even a world where Gucci is making black face sweater or Prada rocking a hang's man noose as fashion,Or Megan Kelly is primarily fired for blackface comments(and bad ratings), Governor of Virginia is under fire for wearing Blackface when he was younger. And the point is even if you don't agree with it completely with it is easy to within current climate understand how Psylocke how could someday lead to unwanted problems. I am not telling anyone they have to agree with the change of psylocke ,you can justify not change it as well and have good reasons BUT stopping before it can blow into a ugly pr issue is just smart.


Anyways we beat this horse clean to death in that Psylocke topic. Anyways they had presence of mind to prevent a fire before one could be started.

[Kurolegacy]

You don't buy at as offensive because it wasn't changed? That is like saying Blackface and Yellowface are fine because it was done for decades in movies . And just because some people aren't offended doesn't mean it is not the right move to change it. Some Native Americans are fine with Redskins but we all know that if you tried to name a team the Black Skins or Yellow Skin today,It would be shut down immediately. Who is right? The Native Americans who are upset at it or the Native Americans who are not.. In situation like that simple solution is just to remove the issue,so what if it is "PC" you remove something that bother enough people that is one less problem you have deal with.

Culture changes and things acceptable in past aren't as acceptable today. Movies like 16 candles and revenge of the nerds have clear date rape in it, American Pie has slang about homosexuals that wouldn't happen today.Those were popular comedies in the past and social standards have either changed or we just final start to listen to voices who didn't have a voice then. Whether it is offensive or similiar to be something offensive, why keep something around when you can fix the issue and move on? Psylocke might have not been problematic in vacuum I mean Alter Carbon plays with same type of thing and nobody is offended at that show. But it is not a vacuum in a world where representation in slim for Asian characters at times,It is problematic that highest profile character Asian character is/was british white woman. In world where Hollywood casted white men and women as Asian as recently Scarlet Jo in Ghost in Shell, Tidla Swinton in Dr Strange or Emma stone in Aloha you can see why might be seen as problematic to have a similar enough situation in your comics,In a world where Asian women are festishized you just dodge a double bullet by not having that possibility happen with pyslocke back in her old body.

Us fans have talk about this before and it wasn't even a world where Gucci is making black face sweater or Prada rocking a hang's man noose as fashion,Or Megan Kelly is primarily fired for blackface comments(and bad ratings), Governor of Virginia is under fire for wearing Blackface when he was younger. And the point is even if you don't agree with it completely with it is easy to within current climate understand how Psylocke how could someday lead to unwanted problems. I am not telling anyone they have to agree with the change of psylocke ,you can justify not change it as well and have good reasons BUT stopping before it can blow into a ugly pr issue is just smart.


Anyways we beat this horse clean to death in that Psylocke topic. Anyways they had presence of mind to prevent a fire before one could be started.

See this is what I mean when it comes to the prospect of feeling offended for someone else. You make the claim that some people weren’t offended by Psylocke which seems to be the perspective of reinventing history in that it was such an underwhelming minority of those who were offended or those who were offended for others that that form of Psylocke is ciewed by the majority as her at her most iconic, extending beyond comics and into literally every media that she has appeared in be it video games, merchandise, movies and cartoons. A character doesn’t have that kind of staying power and popularity off of being something that offends people on the scale that you seek to compare it to.

You try to compare it to Gucci but Psylocke’s status is nothing compared to what happened there in which the sweater’s design showed blatant parallels to blackface complete with exaggerated features. And you saw just from how much of an outrage that that caused, what something that is truly deemed as offensive looks like. That isn’t something that Gucci is just going to walk away from regardless of them pulling the sweater and is a PR nightmare for the damage to the brand that it caused. Psylocke on the other hand, first and foremost, is a result of comic book science and has not presented herself as being Asian. She was a ninja yes, but then, so are a lot of characters within the MU. In her older appearances, the Asian traits came from the fact that she had a part of Kwannon within her, not something all her own and by the current day, not only is the body itself not even Asian but Eurasian but Betsy doesn’t present herself as Asian but as British. At that point, to call her yellowface is a matter of extreme opinion rather than any sort of hard fact.

Either way, in no way did this really “fix” Psylocke as shown by how divisive this change has shown to be to the point that people are still arguing about this to begin with. Hell chances are, both Psylocke and Kwannon are going to have this follow their characters for quite some time.

[Triniking1234]

I wonder why a fire would've started over Psylocke when it never started since 1990. Probably the matches shortage.

[BroHomo]

See this is what I mean when it comes to the prospect of feeling offended for someone else. You make the claim that some people weren’t offended by Psylocke which seems to be the perspective of reinventing history in that it was such an underwhelming minority of those who were offended or those who were offended for others that that form of Psylocke is ciewed by the majority as her at her most iconic, extending beyond comics and into literally every media that she has appeared in be it video games, merchandise, movies and cartoons.

Not sure what your trying to say here but I Don't think Killerbee is saying that he's offended because other people aren't. It's that he's able to emphatically understand how a person can be offended by the character...

A character doesn’t have that kind of staying power and popularity off of being something that offends people on the scale that you seek to compare it to.

Errrrr you ever seen The Simpsons....or Big Bang Theory. Both the only Asian characters on those shows are rooted in racist stereotypes

Psylocke on the other hand, first and foremost, is a result of comic book science and has not presented herself as being Asian. She was a ninja yes, but then, so are a lot of characters within the MU. In her older appearances, the Asian traits came from the fact that she had a part of Kwannon within her

What are Asian traits?? lol Oh you mean the stereotypical sh!t Psylocke started doing when she got her Asian body?
How else did she present herself if not as Asian? And Kwannons lingering personality was gone soon after the "mind meld" took place

not only is the body itself not even Asian but Eurasian but Betsy doesn’t present herself as Asian but as British. At that point, to call her yellowface is a matter of extreme opinion rather than any sort of hard fact.

Not even Asian??
Again Psylockes British identity was almost non-existent unless Kimonos, martial arts, katanas performing geisha like tea ceremonies are a part of rich White British people's culture that I'm unaware of lol
Dude Psylocke wrote the manga on yellowface....any claims she isn't is being overtly ignorant

Either way, in no way did this really “fix” Psylocke as shown by how divisive this change has shown to be to the point that people are still arguing about this to begin with. Hell chances are, both Psylocke and Kwannon are going to have this follow their characters for quite some time.

Well she's no longer doing yellowface
soooooooo yay??

I wonder why a fire would've started over Psylocke when it never started since 1990. Probably the matches shortage.

Internet was slow lol

[Triniking1234]

I'm pretty sure a British person participating Japanese culture isn't 'yellowface'. Snake-Eyes from G.I.Joe and Wolverine do it too.

[Panic]

Not even Asian??
Again Psylockes British identity was almost non-existent unless Kimonos, martial arts, katanas performing geisha like tea ceremonies are a part of rich White British people's culture that I'm unaware of lol
Dude Psylocke wrote the manga on yellowface....any claims she isn't is being overtly ignorant

What worked about Psylocke's part Asian transformation was that it allowed Marvel creators to do what they do best when dealing with people from a different culture: use easy, lazy stereotypes. Only in this case, after the transformation they were able to balance TWO lazy stereotypes against each other to disguise that fact: the artists got to draw Hawt Asian Chick striking martial arts poses and interacting with Asian paraphernalia, whilst the writers got to delve deep into their knowledge of British culture by having Betsy say "Get me some bloody tea!"

At a quick glance it did make it look like Betsy was quite a sophisticated character design, instead of the old American idea that all British people were upper-class, wealthy, and lived in big stately homes (though because she's female she thankfully didn't have to be portrayed as arrogant and over-privileged), combined with the idea that all Asians are masters of the martial arts.

But then cultural appropriation became a thing.

[Kurolegacy]

Not even Asian??
Again Psylockes British identity was almost non-existent unless Kimonos, martial arts, katanas performing geisha like tea ceremonies are a part of rich White British people's culture that I'm unaware of lol
Dude Psylocke wrote the manga on yellowface....any claims she isn't is being overtly ignorant

And yet when Wolverine does the exact same thing despite being a white Canadian it’s perfectly fine and why, because he wasn’t placed into a Eurasian body? Would you still be talking the same way if Betsy was still doing the same things despite Caucasian body or would it now be that she’s honoring the culture?

[Havok83]

And yet when Wolverine does the exact same thing despite being a white Canadian it’s perfectly fine and why, because he wasn’t placed into a Eurasian body? Would you still be talking the same way if Betsy was still doing the same things despite Caucasian body or would it now be that she’s honoring the culture?

I wont say never as Im sure someone might come up with examples but Wolverine has rarely been presented as Japanese. He's a foreigner and thats acknowledged and he treats the culture with respect. Psylocke has many times been a caricature and played up for sexy stereotypes. The writers havent handled her and Japanese culture with respect

[Snoop Dogg]

are logan's kimonos a narrative device used to show off his thicc legs and ass

[Kurolegacy]

I wont say never as Im sure someone might come up with examples but Wolverine has rarely been presented as Japanese. He's a foreigner and thats acknowledged and he treats the culture with respect. Psylocke has many times been a caricature and played up for sexy stereotypes. The writers havent handled her and Japanese culture with respect

But at the same time, that seems more a problem with the writers vs the character. At what point do you draw the line between where the writer is basically fetishizing a character and an actual problem existing? Hell we have seen Betsy in numerous down time situations in which it has absolutely nothing to do with Japanese culture. It isn’t as though everything about the character is treated as some Asian stereotype.

[Tazirai]

You don't buy at as offensive because it wasn't changed? That is like saying Blackface and Yellowface are fine because it was done for decades in movies . And just because some people aren't offended doesn't mean it is not the right move to change it. Some Native Americans are fine with Redskins but we all know that if you tried to name a team the Black Skins or Yellow Skin today,It would be shut down immediately. Who is right? The Native Americans who are upset at it or the Native Americans who are not.. In situation like that simple solution is just to remove the issue,so what if it is "PC" you remove something that bother enough people that is one less problem you have deal with.

Culture changes and things acceptable in past aren't as acceptable today. Movies like 16 candles and revenge of the nerds have clear date rape in it, American Pie has slang about homosexuals that wouldn't happen today.Those were popular comedies in the past and social standards have either changed or we just final start to listen to voices who didn't have a voice then. Whether it is offensive or similiar to be something offensive, why keep something around when you can fix the issue and move on? Psylocke might have not been problematic in vacuum I mean Alter Carbon plays with same type of thing and nobody is offended at that show. But it is not a vacuum in a world where representation in slim for Asian characters at times,It is problematic that highest profile character Asian character is/was british white woman. In world where Hollywood casted white men and women as Asian as recently Scarlet Jo in Ghost in Shell, Tidla Swinton in Dr Strange or Emma stone in Aloha you can see why might be seen as problematic to have a similar enough situation in your comics,In a world where Asian women are festishized you just dodge a double bullet by not having that possibility happen with pyslocke back in her old body.

Us fans have talk about this before and it wasn't even a world where Gucci is making black face sweater or Prada rocking a hang's man noose as fashion,Or Megan Kelly is primarily fired for blackface comments(and bad ratings), Governor of Virginia is under fire for wearing Blackface when he was younger. And the point is even if you don't agree with it completely with it is easy to within current climate understand how Psylocke how could someday lead to unwanted problems. I am not telling anyone they have to agree with the change of psylocke ,you can justify not change it as well and have good reasons BUT stopping before it can blow into a ugly pr issue is just smart.


Anyways we beat this horse clean to death in that Psylocke topic. Anyways they had presence of mind to prevent a fire before one could be started.

All the this...

Race swapping is just bad at it's core. If they're from an Alternate Universe then alls forgiven if they were born that way. Psylocke is probably a legit Womanof East Asian Decent in some alternate timeline.