Pitch a Direction: Green Arrow

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Thanks.



Grell.

I figure, it's a way to help separate Ollie from the crowd. While most powerless/street level heroes are all about the tech, all Ollie has is a good bow, his wits, grit, and the skills he learned on the island. I think it also creates a little less dissonance in his character; he's using a low-tech weapon (no matter how advanced, a bow will always be low tech compared to firearms, in the minds of readers if nothing else) so he shouldn't have a bunch of high-tech gear offsetting that design choice. It also forces more emphasis on his natural ability and skills as a hunter. If he doesn't have a fancy tracking device to follow the bad guy, he's gotta follow the trail old-school, and that plays into the "urban ranger/modern Robin Hood" vibes that're central to Ollie's themes and tones.

It might work better as a period piece or an anachronistic piece like Batman TAS.

Not a fan of this. It was okay when Grell but it doesn’t need to be emulated. In a world full of magic, aliens and metahumans he needs something to give him an edge over the competition. The kinda thing only works if the fantastical stuff doesn’t exist in his world. Him fighting crime bosses, corrupted officials, etc would get boring after a while. This is all my opinion of course.

I can see Ed Brubaker/Sean Phillips doing a take like that.

[DrNewGod]

Season 1 TV Show Arrow had the answer: Angry Batman.

[Raijin]

It might work better as a period piece or an anachronistic piece like Batman TAS.


I can see Ed Brubaker/Sean Phillips doing a take like that.

I’m not familiar with his writing, so I’ll check him out. But then I wonder how do you do certain Green Arrow villains in a real-world context? Brick is someone who has invulnerable skin. Do you stick him in an exoskeleton armor from the military?

[Ascended]

Not a fan of this. It was okay when Grell but it doesn’t need to be emulated. In a world full of magic, aliens and metahumans he needs something to give him an edge over the competition. The kinda thing only works if the fantastical stuff doesn’t exist in his world. Him fighting crime bosses, corrupted officials, etc would get boring after a while. This is all my opinion of course.

No worries. Im not really sold on the idea of using Ollie's title as the "offensive, piss everyone off" book myself.

But the idea is that thing that gave him an "edge" would be the narratives and topics; that's what would make the book stand out. No DC book is tackling Black Lives Matter, a government that refuses to consider the findings of scientists on climate change, the growing divide between economic classes, etc.

When you get right down to it, Ollie has never been the kind of guy to stand toe-to-toe with the big guns. He isn't Batman, using toys and tricks to make up for not having powers. Ollie's supposed to be the blue collar guy; the dude on the street, not the god in the sky. Even his time with the League is usually spun as him being there to provide that "regular person" perspective; he's not there to stop Darkseid, he's there to prevent the Justice Lords. He doesn't *need* to equal those other heroes. And if he does need to, for some reason? He's got an answer for that in the form of Dinah. People really forget how dangerous she is; that scream should be able to take down a Superman.

I’m not familiar with his writing, so I’ll check him out. But then I wonder how do you do certain Green Arrow villains in a real-world context? Brick is someone who has invulnerable skin. Do you stick him in an exoskeleton armor from the military?

If you're talking about my idea, he'd still be in the DCU. There'd still be superhumans and magic and monsters. He just wouldn't fight them most of the time, just as Superman rarely deals with magic. Someone like Brick could easily remain in his rogues gallery; he's a low-tier metahuman. Sure, Ollie's arrows aren't going to break his skin but that's always been the case, and Ollie finds other ways to stop him.

[Ascended]

It might work better as a period piece or an anachronistic piece like Batman TAS.

Whoops, missed this in my reply above. Sorry for cluttering the thread.

I think, as a period piece it could work, since many of the issues society is dealing with now are mirrored by past topics and problems that have evolved or changed but never totally went away (racism, sexism, etc). In fact, that might be a pretty clever way to handle it without being as blatantly insulting as I've suggested (though that'd be less fun lol ).

And the entire DCU would likely benefit from being anachronistic like BTAS. But just as some heroes don't deal with cosmic problems, or magic, or whatever else, Ollie not dealing with high-level superhumans isn't a hurdle. He rarely has, and has focused on street level threats, or low-end superhuman type threats, none of which would be beyond him in my idea. I did mention the explosive arrows, right?

[Raijin]

No worries. Im not really sold on the idea of using Ollie's title as the "offensive, piss everyone off" book myself.

But the idea is that thing that gave him an "edge" would be the narratives and topics; that's what would make the book stand out. No DC book is tackling Black Lives Matter, a government that refuses to consider the findings of scientists on climate change, the growing divide between economic classes, etc.

When you get right down to it, Ollie has never been the kind of guy to stand toe-to-toe with the big guns. He isn't Batman, using toys and tricks to make up for not having powers. Ollie's supposed to be the blue collar guy; the dude on the street, not the god in the sky. Even his time with the League is usually spun as him being there to provide that "regular person" perspective; he's not there to stop Darkseid, he's there to prevent the Justice Lords. He doesn't *need* to equal those other heroes. And if he does need to, for some reason? He's got an answer for that in the form of Dinah. People really forget how dangerous she is; that scream should be able to take down a Superman.



If you're talking about my idea, he'd still be in the DCU. There'd still be superhumans and magic and monsters. He just wouldn't fight them most of the time, just as Superman rarely deals with magic. Someone like Brick could easily remain in his rogues gallery; he's a low-tier metahuman. Sure, Ollie's arrows aren't going to break his skin but that's always been the case, and Ollie finds other ways to stop him.

Oh okay. Then I misunderstood your post then. I thought you meant doing having exist where metas and magic wasn’t a thing. Something similar to Nolan’s Batman or Punisher Max.

[Ascended]

Sa'll good brother!

[WonderScott]

Oliver Queen crash lands and gets marooned in Skartaris and Connor Hawke replaces him in the DCU proper.

[mkeeler]

I too have always wanted to see the Robin Hood angle leaned into more. It provides an immediately recognizable setup, that plays into Green Arrow's strengths (social justice, outlaw status), and moves him away from the Batman comparison (by playing up the other influence).

The simple pitch would be: Oliver Queen fights a battle on two fronts to restore justice and equality to his West Coast home of Star City. By day, billionaire Oliver Queen oversees Queen Industries, using his wealth and technology to promote social action and effect change. By night, he patrols the city as vigilante armed with his bow and assortment of arrows (secret identity intact). Aided by a group of fellow vigilantes and support staff and opposed by the corrupt mayor and police commissioner, Oliver Queen is the Green Arrow.

The analogy holds up pretty well, as the players are pretty easy to match on a one to one basis.

Green Arrow - Robin Hood
John Diggle - Little John
Frederick Tuckman - Friar Tuck
Arsenal (Roy) - Will Scarlet
Felicity Smoak - Alan-a-Dale (as chronicler) - could also substitute a Ben Urich esque reporter
Stan Wilson - Much the Miller's Son
Black Canary - Maid Marian
Corrupt Mayor - Prince John (John King?)
Malcom Merlyn - Sir Guy of Gisbourne
Corrupt Police Commissioner - Sheriff of Nottingham (Kurt Lance/Craig Windrow)

I may be the only one, but I thought the idea of the star shaped forest that popped up after Brightest Day was a very interesting premise that could have been used better. It provides the Sherwood Forest for the analogy, but also provides a perfect mechanism to focus on stories regarding the homeless and ecological issues.

[Timothy Hunter]

I may be the only one, but I thought the idea of the star shaped forest that popped up after Brightest Day was a very interesting premise that could have been used better. It provides the Sherwood Forest for the analogy, but also provides a perfect mechanism to focus on stories regarding the homeless and ecological issues.

That concept brought forth by Brightest Day also sparked my interest. However, there is a sort of conundrum which will result in utilizing that idea, with both positive and negative benefits. On one hand the star shaped forest makes Star City a visually more unique location in the DC Universe. However, on the other hand, if you use this location, you are also validating the Cry For Justice miniseries as part of current continuity, which would be regrettable.

[j9ac9k]

Mike and Laura Allred's "The Green Arrow"
A guy with a bow and arrow and a staunch SJW persona taking on all the threats of the DCU? Sounds wacky to me. Give Ollie a sense of humor and devil-may-care attitude as he takes on all manner of sci-fi and supernatural threats with his insane arsenal of arrows and insanely accurate trick-shots! He shoots, he never misses, villains are unintimidated by a guy with a bow, but he teaches them a lesson in underestimating a man with skills and maybe even something about civics! Fun, unexpected and even deadly serious at times out of nowhere, The Green Arrow is the ultimate underdog, but the ultimate archer! He's like Don Quixote mixed with a socially conscious Captain Jack Sparrow ... or something... "Get woke, A$$hats!"

[Somecrazyaussie]

I too have always wanted to see the Robin Hood angle leaned into more. It provides an immediately recognizable setup, that plays into Green Arrow's strengths (social justice, outlaw status), and moves him away from the Batman comparison (by playing up the other influence).

The simple pitch would be: Oliver Queen fights a battle on two fronts to restore justice and equality to his West Coast home of Star City. By day, billionaire Oliver Queen oversees Queen Industries, using his wealth and technology to promote social action and effect change. By night, he patrols the city as vigilante armed with his bow and assortment of arrows (secret identity intact). Aided by a group of fellow vigilantes and support staff and opposed by the corrupt mayor and police commissioner, Oliver Queen is the Green Arrow.

The analogy holds up pretty well, as the players are pretty easy to match on a one to one basis.

Green Arrow - Robin Hood
John Diggle - Little John
Frederick Tuckman - Friar Tuck
Arsenal (Roy) - Will Scarlet
Felicity Smoak - Alan-a-Dale (as chronicler) - could also substitute a Ben Urich esque reporter
Stan Wilson - Much the Miller's Son
Black Canary - Maid Marian
Corrupt Mayor - Prince John (John King?)
Malcom Merlyn - Sir Guy of Gisbourne
Corrupt Police Commissioner - Sheriff of Nottingham (Kurt Lance/Craig Windrow)

I may be the only one, but I thought the idea of the star shaped forest that popped up after Brightest Day was a very interesting premise that could have been used better. It provides the Sherwood Forest for the analogy, but also provides a perfect mechanism to focus on stories regarding the homeless and ecological issues.

This.

The first thing that needs to be done is to get Ollie out of Seattle and back to Star City. Nothing against Seattle (I can understand why it is used and acknowledge it was an intriguing location during Grell's tenure), but Green Arrow really lacks the identity most other heroes have by not occupying his own city. Gotham is just as much a character in Batman comics. The same should be true with Star City. If I was in charge of the book, that is the first thing I would implement: Developing Star City.

The forest is a great idea. Given the state of the current DCU, you could retroactively make it that the forest was always there. But it does give Star City something that the other fictional cities lack.

Another thing that needs to be done is a total overhaul of Green Arrow's rogues gallery. Judd Winick may have been hit or miss during his lengthy run, but the dude tried to add more rogues - Brick, Duke Of Oil, Constantine Drakon, Brian Nudocerdo and a few others. Krul added Nix and The Queen. Kriesberg gave us Cupid, Dregz, Discord (both of these are more Black Canary villains) and Big Game 2 (son of the original Big Game). Lemire gave us Komodo. But, to be fair, Green Arrow already had a unique rogues gallery in place created during his many back ups in Action and Detective by Joey Cavalieri. All they need is to be dusted off and retooled in the same fashion like what Johns did for The Flash rogues.