Savage Avengers from Duggan and Deodato!!

[DragonsChi]

There's no reason not to have multiple Avenger books. Even a sattelite Avengers book will likely sell better than at least half the books marvel publishes.

I think it's fine to have Aarons book the ONLY book for a short window of time to make it feel a bit more special... but that window has come and gone. I think it would be dumb not to have at least 2 if not 3.

Probably an Avengers in name only team. Still can't imagine Frank being an actual Avenger. Duggan writing Logan is an automatic win for me tho

It doesn't matter.

The writers that Marvel hires now either don't read or have that much experience with their comics or won't take the time to go back to sort what was what. For all intensive purposes if Avengers is on the title of the book thats what the members of it are. SMH

[Mike_Murdock]

Does Conan in the 616 raise concerns that Ka-Zar will be pushed into the background?

[XPac]

It doesn't matter.

The writers that Marvel hires now either don't read or have that much experience with their comics or won't take the time to go back to sort what was what. For all intensive purposes if Avengers is on the title of the book thats what the members of it are. SMH

It's true that there's a certain marketing aspect of slapping the name Avengers on a book. Hickmans New Avengers for example weren't actually an Avengers team. They were just a part of the Avengers story.

That said, as someone else mentioned I think Stan Lee established very early on that pretty much anyone can be an Avenger with the Kooky Quartet. Lord only knows how the internet would have responded if it existed when he decided to swap out the original Avengers for two mutant terrorists and the criminal boyfriend of a russian spy. If you can slap Avengers on that, it gives future writers a LOT of leeway.

[XPac]

Does Conan in the 616 raise concerns that Ka-Zar will be pushed into the background?

Ka-Zar is sort of usually in the background anyways.

But both Conan and Ka-Zar managed to find themselves on different Avengers team, so I guess it's not an issue.

[Ptrvc]

I really didn't like Gerry Duggan's run on the Hulk. Kinda worried on what he'll do with Venom. Donny Cates has been doing great work, so hopefully Duggan will take cues from that book.

[Michael Watkins]

Does Conan in the 616 raise concerns that Ka-Zar will be pushed into the background?

Should be more concerned with him dying. He just messed with Namor's kingdom.

[davew128]

I absolutely hate the idea of Conan canon mixing with Marvel canon. REH's Hyborean Age is based on obsolete pseudo-scientific theories on the development of civilizations and ethnicities, which are quite intriguing and fun in their own world, but do absolutely not work when confronted with the present day.



Yes, What Ifs. No canon books.

What about characters from his title? Red Sonja appeared in Marvel Team-Up and Kulan Gath has been a nemesis of both Spider-Man and the X-Men.

[DragonsChi]

It's true that there's a certain marketing aspect of slapping the name Avengers on a book. Hickmans New Avengers for example weren't actually an Avengers team. They were just a part of the Avengers story.

That said, as someone else mentioned I think Stan Lee established very early on that pretty much anyone can be an Avenger with the Kooky Quartet. Lord only knows how the internet would have responded if it existed when he decided to swap out the original Avengers for two mutant terrorists and the criminal boyfriend of a russian spy. If you can slap Avengers on that, it gives future writers a LOT of leeway.

The bold isn't even an argument considering those characters were "bad guys" for either a single issue or two at the most. While only being "bad guys" under false pretenses/misunderstanding's. Between the members of the Savage Avengers they have to have a Murder count firmly in the Hundreds of Thousands. Many of which would have been people the law would have judged as innocent.

Not to be rude but to even suggest the Kooky Quartet being on the same playing field is asinine to the point of being unredeemable. The set of characters aren't even playing in the same orbit let alone under the same circumstances.

[XPac]

The bold isn't even an argument considering those characters were "bad guys" for either a single issue or two at the most. While only being "bad guys" under false pretenses/misunderstanding's. Between the members of the Savage Avengers they have to have a Murder count firmly in the Hundreds of Thousands. Many of which would have been people the law would have judged as innocent.

Not to be rude but to even suggest the Kooky Quartet being on the same playing field is asinine to the point of being unredeemable. The set of characters aren't even playing in the same orbit let alone under the same circumstances.

Thor has probably killed just as many people if not more as anyone on the Savage Avengers to be honest. If you count dwarves, elves, and the various other things Asgardians fight as "people."

But as far as the Kooky Quartet.. I'll simply say IF there was an internet at the time, you'd get a comparable reaction if not a worse one. Most of the Savage Avengers, despite being killers, have been written as "heroes" for a long long time.

[Prof. Warren]

The bold isn't even an argument considering those characters were "bad guys" for either a single issue or two at the most. While only being "bad guys" under false pretenses/misunderstanding's. Between the members of the Savage Avengers they have to have a Murder count firmly in the Hundreds of Thousands. Many of which would have been people the law would have judged as innocent.

Not to be rude but to even suggest the Kooky Quartet being on the same playing field is asinine to the point of being unredeemable. The set of characters aren't even playing in the same orbit let alone under the same circumstances.

The members of Savage Avengers are certainly in another league than Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were when they joined but then again, no one in the early '60s could have possibly imagined a time when characters as violent as Punisher or Wolverine would have even existed in mainstream superhero comics.

Point being, it was established early on that the qualifications for membership were highly flexible. The book went from being an assembly of the biggest names at Marvel to including complete no names - and criminals to boot. So the idea that any of these SA characters represents a shocking breach of etiquette to the Avengers brand is ridiculous.

Especially when we've already had Wolverine and Deadpool as members.

[Snoop Dogg]

A team's purpose and function doesn't have to match the honored history of the Avengers and whatnot if they have a thematic reason to be Avengers. Like Avenging. Which can be very violent.

I'm defending teams I don't like. They got me.

[DragonsChi]

Thor has probably killed just as many people if not more as anyone on the Savage Avengers to be honest. If you count dwarves, elves, and the various other things Asgardians fight as "people."

But as far as the Kooky Quartet.. I'll simply say IF there was an internet at the time, you'd get a comparable reaction if not a worse one. Most of the Savage Avengers, despite being killers, have been written as "heroes" for a long long time.

Thor kills in war's and with orders under the "government"/ruler he serves instructs him to do so. Thereby making it a form of "Justice" under the laws he is bound by as a citizen of his "country"/Relam . Punisher kills if you jaywalk and he is having a bad day. Elektra more or less is in the same boat. The three are hardly the same. Don't even get me started on Eddy Brocks Venom.

And it is no form comparable since all of those characters mentioned almost immediately became Avengers at basically the very beginning of the Marvel Universe. Heck Pietro and Wanda were minors and forced against their will to join Magneto. Not only that as soon as Magneto was removed from earth they both ran as far and as fast as they could from that life. No person in their right mind would have batted an eye back then under those circumstances or now.


Anyway, I know you like to respond back for the sake of responding back so my finial point on this is ....being Avenger finally and officially means nothing any more. They are no longer Heroes to inspire to be, they no longer represent a form of fair Justice, and they are no longer the examples of tomorrow. From this day forward Every character in the Marvel Universe is officially an Avenger. On the official roster or not.

[Mary Jay]

Oh this is so not for me Easy pass on my part, but I hope people who are interested will find the book entertaining.

The bold isn't even an argument considering those characters were "bad guys" for either a single issue or two at the most. While only being "bad guys" under false pretenses/misunderstanding's. Between the members of the Savage Avengers they have to have a Murder count firmly in the Hundreds of Thousands. Many of which would have been people the law would have judged as innocent.

Not to be rude but to even suggest the Kooky Quartet being on the same playing field is asinine to the point of being unredeemable. The set of characters aren't even playing in the same orbit let alone under the same circumstances.

Quoted in agreement.

I also don't see what this team has in common with the Avengers, personally. It seems like branding for commercial reasons to me. Besides Voodoo, they're not really prime "Avengers" material...

The members of Savage Avengers are certainly in another league than Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver were when they joined but then again, no one in the early '60s could have possibly imagined a time when characters as violent as Punisher or Wolverine would have even existed in mainstream superhero comics.

Point being, it was established early on that the qualifications for membership were highly flexible. The book went from being an assembly of the biggest names at Marvel to including complete no names - and criminals to boot. So the idea that any of these SA characters represents a shocking breach of etiquette to the Avengers brand is ridiculous.

Especially when we've already had Wolverine and Deadpool as members.

The thing about QS, SW and Hawkeye was that the Avengers picked them. They chose them. They decided to let them on the team, and they would have probably kicked them out if they were not acting properly (remember the Avengers used to have a charter with rules and meetings and such). Now I may be oldschool, but I don't see any Avenger who would caution this team as an "Avengers" team... And don't remind me about Wolverine and Deadpool being Avengers...

[Prof. Warren]

Anyway, I know you like to respond back for the sake of responding back so my finial point on this is ....being Avenger finally and officially means nothing any more. From this day forward Every character in the Marvel Universe is officially an Avenger. On the official roster or not.

Well, these particular characters won't be on the official roster so...

The thing about QS, SW and Hawkeye was that the Avengers picked them. They chose them. They decided to let them on the team, and they would have probably kicked them out if they were not acting properly (remember the Avengers used to have a charter with rules and meetings and such). Now I may be oldschool, but I don't see any Avenger who would caution this team as an "Avengers" team... And don't remind me about Wolverine and Deadpool being Avengers...

SA's branding as an Avengers book is, obviously, first and foremost a marketing tool. I imagine there'll be an in-story discussion on how this team is unsanctioned and so on and so forth.

[jackolover]

I don’t know what the incentive is for Punisher to be invited to this party. The others, okay, in a stretch could be considered Avengers, but Punisher? What is Franks interest in Conan, the Hand, or a magical amulet?

Nevertheless, this is crazy. An Avengers like this is a kill team led by Conan, I imagine. Conan is like the guy from Weirdworld. You kill first and ask questions later, Logan’s favourite MO.

Logan and Electra Natchios have history in Enemy of the State, so they are good buddies.

Another weird inclusion is Brother Voodoo. But he does fit the pattern of off-centre, off-beat, disparate characters who shouldn’t be in the same room together.

This is not X-Men drama. It’s not even Avengers business, it’s almost bad-guy business that should be set in Madripoor. I don’t see how we can’t pick this up.