Superman in Young Justice

[Frontier]

It’s always amazing to me when people keep complaining Supes is “too perfect” when the last two decades his characterization outside the comics has been:

DCAU - A gullible moron who is constantly jobbing, losing his temper, and being shown up by Batman
Superman Returns - A deadbeat dad
Smallville - An angsty teenager
Man of Steel - A rookie who gets his ass beat and his city destroyed
Young Justice - A deadbeat dad (again) until the end of season 1, and now he’s back to being a naive idiot who can’t be trusted with the “real” work Batman and WW are doing
Batman v. Superman - A mopey moron
Supergirl - A jobber who’s weaker than Kara

Outside of that brief Legion of Superheroes cartoon, Supes really hasn’t been allowed to be a hero. No wonder people don’t like him that much. Still I enjoyed a lot of the media I listed above, but man I wish we could get a cartoon focusing on him again, and just him no Batman.

He was pretty awesome in Justice League Action at least, and the Death/Reign animated film duology.

[Jackalope89]

It’s always amazing to me when people keep complaining Supes is “too perfect” when the last two decades his characterization outside the comics has been:

DCAU - A gullible moron who is constantly jobbing, losing his temper, and being shown up by Batman
Superman Returns - A deadbeat dad
Smallville - An angsty teenager
Man of Steel - A rookie who gets his ass beat and his city destroyed
Young Justice - A deadbeat dad (again) until the end of season 1, and now he’s back to being a naive idiot who can’t be trusted with the “real” work Batman and WW are doing
Batman v. Superman - A mopey moron
Supergirl - A jobber who’s weaker than Kara

Outside of that brief Legion of Superheroes cartoon, Supes really hasn’t been allowed to be a hero. No wonder people don’t like him that much. Still I enjoyed a lot of the media I listed above, but man I wish we could get a cartoon focusing on him again, and just him no Batman.

1. The creators didn't really seem to like him much. So, yeah.
2. Wasn't that kept from him until later in the film? Been awhile, and I only watched it the one time.
3. "Angsty teen" is the go-to for most shows like that. Just look at the live adaptation of Archie Comics.
4. Yeah, I didn't care much for the film myself.
5. YJ season 1, Clark had to deal with learning his DNA was stolen from him to create a clone. But once he got over that, he and Connor were much better off. And he's not the "naive idiot" for season 3. Bruce and Diana are keeping him in the dark so that he and the League aren't held complicit if the Outsiders are outed. That way, at least the League still has the public's trust.
6. Once again, not a fan of what Snyder did with Supes. It took the reshoots of Justice League for me to like him in the DCEU.
7. The series is about Supergirl, not Superman. Of course it was going to have Kara win. To expect otherwise is naive for the situation.

But nothing about Justice League, the two recent Superman animated films, etc.?

[Kon93]

Justice league action has a awesome superman, and imo he has the BEST supersuit

[Vordan]

What about the animated movies?

Death and Reign were great but the vast majority of the New 52 movies had him either being mindcontrolled or being a dick. Now I find Superdickery pretty entertaining, but I doubt Superman smashing Hal and Bruce through buildings made people like him. It was great for someone who was already a Superman fan though, **** Batman’s prep time Supes won! That felt pretty good.

[Vordan]

1. The creators didn't really seem to like him much. So, yeah.
2. Wasn't that kept from him until later in the film? Been awhile, and I only watched it the one time.
3. "Angsty teen" is the go-to for most shows like that. Just look at the live adaptation of Archie Comics.
4. Yeah, I didn't care much for the film myself.
5. YJ season 1, Clark had to deal with learning his DNA was stolen from him to create a clone. But once he got over that, he and Connor were much better off. And he's not the "naive idiot" for season 3. Bruce and Diana are keeping him in the dark so that he and the League aren't held complicit if the Outsiders are outed. That way, at least the League still has the public's trust.
6. Once again, not a fan of what Snyder did with Supes. It took the reshoots of Justice League for me to like him in the DCEU.
7. The series is about Supergirl, not Superman. Of course it was going to have Kara win. To expect otherwise is naive for the situation.

But nothing about Justice League, the two recent Superman animated films, etc.?

Just to be clear: I actually like a lot of the media listed above. But if you’re new to Superheroes and you saw these adaptions of Supes is there really anything there that would make you go “y’know this guy is my new favorite superhero”? I suspect not and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Supes popularity has taken a beating in recent years. Smallville is probably the only exception but I was just listing that to show that in all the recent media Supes has shown up in he’s never been the Space Jesus stereotype people act like he is. That’s not even touching the Injustice games where he’s Space Hitler.

In JL he was barely a character. He was a Deus Ex Machina. He was less whiny which was nice but he had barely any screen time AGAIN. If we were getting a new movie with that characterization I’d feel more optimistic but with Cavill now in the hole I don’t feel very happy right now about DCEU Supes. Loved the animated movies, I want another one that’s focused JUST on Supes with his new status quo in the DCAMU continuity.

[HeroVladimir93]

Just to be clear: I actually like a lot of the media listed above. But if you’re new to Superheroes and you saw these adaptions of Supes is there really anything there that would make you go “y’know this guy is my new favorite superhero”? I suspect not and I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Supes popularity has taken a beating in recent years. Smallville is probably the only exception but I was just listing that to show that in all the recent media Supes has shown up in he’s never been the Space Jesus stereotype people act like he is. That’s not even touching the Injustice games where he’s Space Hitler.

In JL he was barely a character. He was a Deus Ex Machina. He was less whiny which was nice but he had barely any screen time AGAIN. If we were getting a new movie with that characterization I’d feel more optimistic but with Cavill now in the hole I don’t feel very happy right now about DCEU Supes. Loved the animated movies, I want another one that’s focused JUST on Supes with his new status quo in the DCAMU continuity.

The DCAU delivered one of my favorite versions of Superman in the modern era. I enjoyed both Tim Daly's maturity and George Newbern's youthful energy. Both actors delivered different, yet equally valid interpretations of Superman and I'm not surprised they keep reprising the role of Superman in animated movies.

The DCEU Superman trilogy is one of my favorite movie trilogies of all time. Henry Cavill is a great actor and I think deserves another chance to play Superman again.

Superman Returns wasn't exactly the big Superman experience I was hoping for. It did more right than wrong but what it did wrong so blatantly obvious that it damaged the final product for me. Whose bright idea was to make Superman a parent out of wedlock and get Lois to hook up with another guy!?

While I did like some episodes and concepts here and there, Smallville was a huge no-no for me. It took way too many liberties with the source material and its portrayal of Clark Kent was too much like Peter Parker, a well-intentioned but reluctant kid who only becomes a hero because outside circumstances force him to. Clark should have become Superman around season 5 or so. Even the Arrowverse, still a mixed bag for me, is still attempting to escape the long shadow Smallville cast over other TV series based on DC characters.

Speaking of the Arrowverse, that Superman is likeable enough. I have nothing against Tyler Hoechlin. He is a good actor doing a job and collecting a paycheck, but compared to Henry, he is not given good material to work with. His portrayal of Superman is too similar to Christopher Reeve and the Arrowverse only uses him to prop up or propel Supergirl forward.

I still haven't watched Reign but Death was a good movie and it certainly did Superman justice. Jerry O'Connell was finally allowed to deliver his full talent as Superman. Hopefully, more movies set in this continuity will further explore Superman's character development and relationship with Lois, especially because that continuity is moving away from the New 52 influence and embracing the Rebirth era.

The biggest problem I can see with Superman in the modern era is that outside the comic books, he almost never carries an entire story on his own. He always has to share the spotlight with another hero (Batman v. Superman) or an ensemble cast (Justice League). It would appear that Warner and DC no longer think Superman can be interesting on his own or that he can be the sole protagonist of a story. Batman can do it, Wonder Woman can do it, even Aquaman can do it, so why can't Superman do it? At this point in the game, fans are basically begging Warner and DC to give them an adaptation exclusively focused on Superman. There are no news on the movie front, Superman was basically a supporting character in the Elseworlds crossover and the rumors about a new video game turned out to be fake. Even the animated movies Death and Reign couldn't wait to focus on the four successors that appear after Superman's death. I get it, Warner and DC, there is a lot of storytelling potential in Superman's interactions with other superheroes but Superman deserves the chance to shine on his own merits. Superman should be the main character of his own story, without a supporting cast of fellow superheroes behind his back.

[Agent Z]

The criticism that people mainly have with Superman's portrayal on the show has mostly to do with his treatment the first season. Batman took over the leadership role of the team while Superman just didn't seem to care and got angry when Bruce suggested he was Superboy's father. With Batman once again being the adult in the room and Superman having to be talked down from over-reacting. Just like in the JL cartoon.

It's only an overreaction if you think the guy doesn't have a right to be disturbed by the existence of a clone that was created without his knowledge or consent. And Clark was right that he isn't Conner's father. Because Conner isn't his son no matter how you try to spin it.

It’s always amazing to me when people keep complaining Supes is “too perfect” when the last two decades his characterization outside the comics has been:

DCAU - A gullible moron who is constantly jobbing, losing his temper, and being shown up by Batman
Superman Returns - A deadbeat dad
Smallville - An angsty teenager
Man of Steel - A rookie who gets his ass beat and his city destroyed
Young Justice - A deadbeat dad (again) until the end of season 1, and now he’s back to being a naive idiot who can’t be trusted with the “real” work Batman and WW are doing
Batman v. Superman - A mopey moron
Supergirl - A jobber who’s weaker than Kara

Outside of that brief Legion of Superheroes cartoon, Supes really hasn’t been allowed to be a hero. No wonder people don’t like him that much. Still I enjoyed a lot of the media I listed above, but man I wish we could get a cartoon focusing on him again, and just him no Batman.

I think the perception of him being perfect comes when his fans exaggerate any weaknesses he displays or treats him having any difficulty as some betrayal of the character.

I mean, look at the post above and really ask if any of it is actually accurate.

In the DCAU – The number of times he loses his temper can be counted on one hand and his jobbing is limited to season 1 of Justice League. In fact, Wonder Woman loses more fights than him throughout the series.

In Superman Returns – he doesn’t know Jason is his son for most of the movie and when he finds out, he stays away not because he’s deadbeat but because he respects Lois and her husband.

Smallville – people who hate this show really love to exaggerate how “angsty” Clark really was ignoring that more often than not he was depicted as being humorous and friendly. The angst reduced the more he transitioned into adulthood.

Man of Steel – last I checked, he beat Zod and saved the entire planet despite being a rookie. If Metropolis being trashed is a mark against him, then every other version of Superman might as well hang up the cape.

Young Justice – I’m beginning to feel like a lot of Superman fans don’t know the difference between a child born from a one-night stand and a clone created from your DNA without your knowledge or consent. And the reason why he isn’t in on the plan is because Batman and Wonder Woman don’t want to incriminate the rest of the League.

Batman vs Superman – I’ve argued against this so many times, it isn’t worth getting into again.

Supergirl – You know, I remember when the Internet couldn’t get enough of this guy and loved to gush about how much better he was than Snyder’s version. Then one episode where he loses to Kara and he’s nothing more than a jobber as if that was the only fight he was in for the entire show.

[Vakanai]

It’s always amazing to me when people keep complaining Supes is “too perfect” when the last two decades his characterization outside the comics has been:

DCAU - A gullible moron who is constantly jobbing, losing his temper, and being shown up by Batman
Superman Returns - A deadbeat dad
Smallville - An angsty teenager
Man of Steel - A rookie who gets his ass beat and his city destroyed
Young Justice - A deadbeat dad (again) until the end of season 1, and now he’s back to being a naive idiot who can’t be trusted with the “real” work Batman and WW are doing
Batman v. Superman - A mopey moron
Supergirl - A jobber who’s weaker than Kara

Outside of that brief Legion of Superheroes cartoon, Supes really hasn’t been allowed to be a hero. No wonder people don’t like him that much. Still I enjoyed a lot of the media I listed above, but man I wish we could get a cartoon focusing on him again, and just him no Batman.

Superman Returns - How is he a deadbeat dad? He didn't know he had a kid, you can't be a deadbeat dad if you don't even know you have a child. Now if there had been a sequel and he had done nothing with his son, then yeah you'd have a point, but in the film we got, no, no he isn't.

Young Justice - Also not a deadbeat dad, Conner is his clone not his son. I mean, no he didn't handle it well (like any of us would?), but whatever relationship you're supposed to have with your unwanted clone, parental probably isn't it.

[Robanker]

It’s always amazing to me when people keep complaining Supes is “too perfect” when the last two decades his characterization outside the comics has been:

DCAU - A gullible moron who is constantly jobbing, losing his temper, and being shown up by Batman
Superman Returns - A deadbeat dad
Smallville - An angsty teenager
Man of Steel - A rookie who gets his ass beat and his city destroyed
Young Justice - A deadbeat dad (again) until the end of season 1, and now he’s back to being a naive idiot who can’t be trusted with the “real” work Batman and WW are doing
Batman v. Superman - A mopey moron
Supergirl - A jobber who’s weaker than Kara

Outside of that brief Legion of Superheroes cartoon, Supes really hasn’t been allowed to be a hero. No wonder people don’t like him that much. Still I enjoyed a lot of the media I listed above, but man I wish we could get a cartoon focusing on him again, and just him no Batman.

I've always found it perplexing that Superman is derided for being "too powerful" when he's among the only characters I can think of who not only retained his original weaknesses, but gained more as the years went on. GL is over the color yellow, Diana isn't subdued by bondage (and thank heavens for that), etc. Superman still has kryptonite (sometimes an entire spectrum of it), red sun radiation (and again, sometimes more than one type, though I recall blue having an inverse effect) and while initially simply no more resistant to magic than others, now it just punks him especially.

Think about it. Out of everyone on the JLA, he's the one with the most checks against him (granted J'onn's is easier to come by, but still). DC's not going to create many new Superfans if they're ashamed of him and only bring him out to lose or turn evil.

[SiegePerilous02]

YJ kind of creates the expectation that Clark had to be a dad to Connor. From his perspective it makes sense, but then you have Connor being sad all season, Bruce lecturing him, and MM giving him the last name Kent. And the Clark coming around at the end while nobody that I recall really sympathizes on his side. Teenage Roy later handles the revelation of his having a clone better.

It was kind of a misfire borne of a solid idea. Its not his show, but in that case these characters shouldn't really be brought in if they are just going to be glossed over.

[superduperman]

Speaking of Conner being his clone, does that mean that Jon will only have half powers like Conner since in the show the explanation for why he doesn't have Superman's full powers is he's half human? His mother is a human so it would make sense he'd be closer to Conner on the show than his comic incarnation.

[Superlad93]

When it comes to Conner and Jon's powers on the show, they've got wiggle room, I think.

In regards to Conner, they say that specific kryptonian DNA sequences were patched up with human ones. Had they not done that, they've have gotten Match, so it stands to reason that the damaged DNA is a byproduct of the way they're made. A natural birth doesn't seem to have any of those issues inherent to it, so the DNA sequences might come together differently.

But really they can go in whatever direction they want. Jon could grow to be stronger/more capable than both Conner and Superman, or he could be weaker/less capable than the both of them, or he could be just as powerful/capable as either Superman or Conner, or he could be the weakest yet. The sky's always been the limit with Superman's offspring.

[Vakanai]

Speaking of Conner being his clone, does that mean that Jon will only have half powers like Conner since in the show the explanation for why he doesn't have Superman's full powers is he's half human? His mother is a human so it would make sense he'd be closer to Conner on the show than his comic incarnation.

Not necessarily - We don't actually know how human Conner really is, only that some of his DNA is human (you know, if you really want to qualify Luthor as human instead of the pond scum he really is). I don't think it was ever revealed how/when/where the Light acquired Superman's DNA, but parts of it were apparently damaged, hence why Match isn't all there/crazy violent. So Lex just replaced the damaged genes with his own. Now, which genes these were and what percentage of Conner's entire genetic structure this makes up wasn't revealed, so it's entirely possible that the undamaged 50% of his DNA baby Jon inherited from his dad contains the full Kryptonian powerset that Conner lacks. Or he could indeed have the same powerset as Conner, or maybe something in between. No way to know unless there's a season with an older Jon with at least one episode focused on him.

[Superlad93]

parts of it were apparently damaged, hence why Match isn't all there/crazy violent. So Lex just replaced the damaged genes with his own.

Interesting. I didn't know/remember the DNA was damaged before cloning began. That makes sense given Superman's invulnerability. They could've extracted it via a battle where kryptonite was used. Regardless, it seems that Conner was created with less than ideal DNA to begin with, as opposed to Jon being conceived while Superman was likely at tip-to shape. That may be all the difference needed.

[Vakanai]

Interesting. I didn't know/remember the DNA was damaged before cloning began. That makes sense given Superman's invulnerability. They could've extracted it via a battle where kryptonite was used. Regardless, it seems that Conner was created with less than ideal DNA to begin with, as opposed to Jon being conceived while Superman was likely at tip-to shape. That may be all the difference needed.

I mean, it's been a while since I saw the episode, but best as memory serves I'm pretty sure that was the reason given as to why some gene sequences were replaced with Luthor's genes and why Match was/is the way he was/is (is Match still frozen?). Damaged DNA from kryptonite exposure would be a good explanation for it all, but I doubt the show will ever outright say that for sure.