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  1. #16
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Wow someone took me joking about Force Recon,CBIR and MAW beginning together seriously. First the scenario is random as hell it take just a "regiment of marines" it could be engineers, it could be reservists, It could be supply.Whatever lets make more specific lets say we are talking about 1st Marine Regiment which is HQ and 4 Battalions mostly infantry. The second thing as I mention something like means that they are in a country that US wouldn't touch they aren't supplying the Reigement but they have place to stage. The third thing what "all the equipment" mean every vehicle, supply,computer,weapons,etc under 1st Marine Regiment is coming along? How are they transporting this stuff? Doesn't this imply some MAW is part of this deal. How they did fund this move?

    Anyways back to main point, You guys are assuming stupid on the situation. A group that size can't make money? Think about things they have to sell to other countries. Then the scenario are too many other questions that would need more exacts which lead to more assumptions. The General consensus is they can't hold conventional fight. Too Small of number and not enough resources. Where I disagree is that they will fight conventional or that wouldn't do things make sure that equipment they will be useful. Feel free to disagree

    Lastly

    1. Is detonating nuclear weapon with codes only way to use a nuclear weapon? The answer is no.They are also dirty bombs

    2. Making a bioweapon for group like that wouldn't be hard but just in slightly different direction to get people understand the point Mustard gas, Chlorine bombs and agent orange.They are a lot of nasty stuff out there

  2. #17
    Prince of Duckness Beadle's Avatar
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    “You guys are assuming stupid on the situation.” is not only terrible grammar (which of course may result from English not being your first language, which I don’t know, so...), but also pretty insulting. That’s not how we debate round here.

    And again, how are this rogue regiment getting getting hold of dirty bombs? It’s not exactly their standard arsenal.

  3. #18
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    yes, Killerbee911, I'm assuming that these hypothetical marines are "stupid" because what you suggested is simply NOT something that regular leatherneck marines are going to try.

    people fight in the way that they are trained to fight; they combine that training with experience and teamwork. conventional people don't use unconventional tactics unless they've LEARNED them. these guys aren't making dirty bombs. they're not creating Ebola based weapons.

    your initial suggestions assumed that they had access to aircraft, submarines, nuclear weapons, and a bunch of stuff that a regiment simply NEVER has access to.

    your later suggestions are based on the activities of terrorist organizations or covert ops by an actual government. if we're not told anything about them - assuming that they're just regular leathernecks is the most logical thing to do.

    if they're not following the Geneva conventions it mostly just means that they'll probably take a lot of drugs, loot, steal, rape, and murder as they see fit. not exactly great prospects for their long-term survival.

    marines, as The Chou Lives already been pointed out, are basically just regular army soldiers that have also been trained for amphibious assaults and landings. that's it. they aren't specialized counter-terrorist organizations. they're not the Black Dragon Society. they're not Antoni Chrusciel with nearly 50,000 anti-Nazi partisans waiting in the streets and sewers of Warsaw to take back their city. they're not Dai Li with the entire Bureau of Investigation and Statistics network of over 30,000 assassins, spies, double-agents, and drug lords and decades of networking in the Chinese underworld at his disposal. they're not even the CIA.

    they're just a USMC regiment that decides to go rogue and see what they can get away with.

    nobody on this thread said that these guys couldn't make money. that's a pretty blatant strawman to make in light of a two page thread! did you read what I wrote about Li Mi? obviously taking over the drug trafficking end of things is a clear way to make money. they have more than enough firepower to do that. and it's more likely to work than taking hostages or making 'dirty bombs'; especially since the military has a long tradition of being involved in the drug trade in multiple countries.

    the problem there is that just about any major government in the world ALREADY has plenty of resources on hand to deal with people like that. in some countries, these marines would probably have less firepower than the drug lords that are currently running things!

    an even easier way for them to make money would be to simply sell their weapons on the black market and then disappear and go off in their own directions. their standard weaponry wouldn't even be that hard to come by in the larger scheme of things.

    it seems pretty clear that the OP made the thread in good faith and... vastly over-estimated what a single regiment is capable of doing. no harm done. it might be a little bit embarrassing, but it's not a big deal.

    if you don't give strangers on the internet a reason to think you're joking... they'll think you're being serious.

  4. #19
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beadle View Post
    “You guys are assuming stupid on the situation.” is not only terrible grammar (which of course may result from English not being your first language, which I don’t know, so...), but also pretty insulting. That’s not how we debate round here.

    And again, how are this rogue regiment getting getting hold of dirty bombs? It’s not exactly their standard arsenal.

    Assuming they are stupid was the wrong words. More like they are standard set of operating procedures and doctrine and I don't feel like the people are presenting Marine in scenario as attacking with in the norms(and yes this coming from person who mention biologically weapons and nukes) But anyways the OP said a marine regiment which can entail anything from a supply battalion to special forces to Marine air wing. My mind to the air wing Nuke and Aircraft in this case is the same thing and certain planes which get that stuff. A more specific scenario like most infantry would have gotten a different answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post

    people fight in the way that they are trained to fight; they combine that training with experience and teamwork. conventional people don't use unconventional tactics unless they've LEARNED them. these guys aren't making dirty bombs. they're not creating Ebola based weapons.

    your initial suggestions assumed that they had access to aircraft, submarines, nuclear weapons, and a bunch of stuff that a regiment simply NEVER has access to.
    My initial suggestion had subs,tanks and ships because honestly couldn't remember what is ours and what is the Navy. As mention above Nukes and Aircraft in what I was suggestion was the same thing. The OP scenario was vague to where any Marine regiment was a possibility and yeah they are planes,helicopters,ships depending on who you are. Marines know unconventional tactics because you are trained to be ready for them and the things I was suggesting wasn't that exotic they are just aren't used because modern wars have rules. The disconnect in thread is how Marines would general operate,simply they would to set up base ,get funded, plan, and then attack. The scenario where they just attack and run out supplies and lose doesn't feel like anything I was taught.The most obvious thing as smaller force that needs to happen is to lower population(and fighting force) to a point where you can control them or have a threat that would make the population stand down.

    And yeah the OP was probably looking Navy Seals,Force Recon,Green Baret, Rangers,or other special forces group in reasonable size element how would they do at holding a country. Marine Regiment can get you anything from from Special forces Battalion to Supply Battalion to Engineer Battalion to Reservist Battalion
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 02-19-2019 at 07:30 AM.

  5. #20
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Totoro Man View Post
    whoa! hold on there big_adventure. now you're talking about stuff that would require artillery and engineers. (seriously, blowing up buildings, taking hostages?)

    and THAT sounds more like a USMC division or even a Task Force than a nuts-and-bolts USMC INFANTRY REGIMENT. a regiment might have roughly 2000 guys in it right now. and before you think that's an unstoppable force... Los Angeles probably has at least five times that many cops that are armed and trained in the use of deadly force. that's not even including all of the other people that would have even more formidable guns but less training. these aren't comic book super soldiers. these are just ordinary people.

    if they're really lucky they could copy what Li Mi did after WW2 with his basically 'rogue' 93rd Division. He and his soldiers wandered around Burma for a pretty long time with the aid of the United States... but mostly hijacked the local opium trade and sold that to survive. on top of that the local governments were also trying to suppress numerous rebellions and couldn't throw all of their might against this renegade force. this is about as close to what the OP is thinking of... and even here, they didn't survive without the help of an outside government or two.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Mi_...China_general)

    the OP doesn't stipulate that... so there's not a whole hell of a lot these guys can do in a real-world scenario. most countries that have a regular military can, and would, crush these guys within at least a month or two. ESPECIALLY if they start doing the sorts of things that big_adventure is talking about. that would just get the rogue marines killed even faster.

    remember, folks a "medium sized city" anywhere in the world might have 200,000 people in it. that's a numerical advantage of roughly 100-to-1 going against these rogue marines. even if they have superiority in firepower there's simply no way an unsupported regiment can hold out against numerical advantages like that.

    my "take over Nauru" scenario doesn't sound that impressive when you compare it to comic book adventure shenanigans... but for a supposedly real-world fighting force with the severe limitations that are implied in the OP that would be a pretty formidable under-taking.
    Well, I was trying to follow what seemed to be the spirit of the OP's question. So, in that vein, I assume, say, support machine guns, mortars, copious grenades, TOWs, LARs, explosives (and people to place them), etc. In that kind of case, they can shock and awe the crap out of even a city of a million people. This isn't to say that the marine force would not be outnumbered, or that they could win a battle with an organized resistance - they could not - but the resistance I was describing would far from organized. Could organization happen eventually? Sure, but it would be eventual. If the attacking force inflicted what basically amounts to shoot-on-sight martial law, or simply stopped law and order services from maintaining same, a lot of people would mostly be "cowardly" (choosing their own families and such) or bad (looting, and all of the bad things worse than looting that come during a disaster). Again, neither of those things would last forever, but it would be present in the beginning.

    Also, you are making one HUGE American-tinted assessment there: that anyone other than armed forces or police have firearms. That's simply not the case in most of the world. In Europe and most of Asia, it's illegal. In Africa and South America, most people are too poor to have firearms and ammo lying around the house, and certainly don't have the skills to use same. And those that do have those things are generally not doing a lot of "risking their lives to help others" kinds of things.
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  6. #21
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    The AK-47 is the answer to the expense issue for populations in poorer countries. Watch the news. Afghanistan isn't rich and those folks are having a fine time fighting high tech armies.

    I think we've shown the OP isn't realistic unless you define the invading force as the whole combined force array and logistic train and that isn't what was stated.

  7. #22
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    The AK-47 is the answer to the expense issue for populations in poorer countries. Watch the news. Afghanistan isn't rich and those folks are having a fine time fighting high tech armies.

    I think we've shown the OP isn't realistic unless you define the invading force as the whole combined force array and logistic train and that isn't what was stated.
    Sure, for a population already on war footing, training fighters, and knowing that the force in question is inbound. But that was not specified in the OP - it asked, more or less, what could they do. And they could shock and awe the living hell out of, say, London or Paris or Barcelona or Beijing or Sydney or San Jose. Could they take over the countries? Of course not. Could they hold the city against a determined organized foe? Not for 24 hours. But could they run absolutely roughshod over an unexpecting, mostly unarmed, civilian populace for a period of days or more (with the right hostage-taking tactics)? Sure, sure. They would eventually lose and get exterminated, but could do some SERIOUS damage before then. But just damage: that's what the armed forces are best at, after all.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  8. #23
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    So they run around Mayberry, USA and overwhelm Barney Fife with his one round in his revolver. Big deal.

    In a reasonable amount of time in any but the most obscure place, they are all killed and/or captured after doing some damage.

  9. #24
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    So they run around Mayberry, USA and overwhelm Barney Fife with his one round in his revolver. Big deal.

    In a reasonable amount of time in any but the most obscure place, they are all killed and/or captured after doing some damage.
    Change that from Mayberry and Barney on up to "pretty decent sized city in most countries in the world" and you have the answer. Again, and I don't know why you are arguing this with me as we're saying something pretty similar, we agree that they can't hold the city, they can't establish a government that will function, and once the target country has recovered from the shock and is pissed off enough, the regiment is toast.

    So to be AGAIN as explicit as possible: they can effectively overrun a city, and destabilize it for a time. And then they are kaput.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
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  10. #25
    The Undead One The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    Yeah these guys are not Space Marines. Just normal humans.

    And to my knowledge Marines do not have nuke, Bio or dirty bombs ( Said dirty bombs guessing neutron bombs?)

    Yeah when they attack, it will be by surprise, but the counter offensive will crush them.

  11. #26
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    Yep, we are on the same page,Big_Ad.

    It's a problem also for most sci-fi stories where a modern something lands back in time. They run out of supplies fairly quickly.

  12. #27
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    Yep, we are on the same page,Big_Ad.

    It's a problem also for most sci-fi stories where a modern something lands back in time. They run out of supplies fairly quickly.
    Yup - logistics is definitely a HUGE issue here, although ironically less of one in the states, where you can buy 5.56 nato and 7.62 nato rounds at 7-11 or whatever. :-)
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  13. #28
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    Where I live, as I said, every reasonable type of ammo is on the shelves - just wait for a sale before you try to take over the town. There's even a rebate on 9 mm running now.

  14. #29
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Smith View Post
    Where I live, as I said, every reasonable type of ammo is on the shelves - just wait for a sale before you try to take over the town. There's even a rebate on 9 mm running now.
    Where I live, stores selling ANY kind of ammunition are very, very few and far between, even in large cities.
    Why are we here?

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  15. #30
    Rumbles Limbo Champion big_adventure's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    Where I live, stores selling ANY kind of ammunition are very, very few and far between, even in large cities.
    Where I live, we can go one further: neither guns nor ammo are readily available.
    "But... But I want to be a big karate cyborg... ;_;" - Nik Hasta
    "Get off my lawn! ...on this forum, that just makes people think of Cyclops." - Sharpandpointies
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