I just saw Alita: Battle Angel and I am ready to render my judgement...

[WebLurker]

Yea, the whole Captain Marvel vs Alita makes no sense. For one they are released a month a part from each other. And the two aren't mutually exclusive. People can watch both and both movies can be successful. The only thing they have in common is a female led.

Thank you. Why do we have to make fights that don't need to exist?

Litle alita is going to be beloved. Please watch more awesome videos to see how the media are trying to kill this movie becaise it is a threat to their captain bored.



It’s a tragic sign of the times that Captain Marvel will blow away Alita at the box office and reviews. In addition to being such a great movie, Rosa Salazar has more charm in her pinky finger than Brie Larson will have as carol.

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I don't really get this animosity towards the Captain Marvel movie. I mean, I'm a Mar-Vell fan, I've never been very happy with the way Carol has tended to take from Mar-Vell's mythology, I'm not terribly happy with the fact that they're pushing Carol as this big feminist statement movie whilst quietly sweeping Mar-Vell under the rug seemingly without mention. But I think the film looks cool, I think Larson is good, I think Marvel have a track record when it comes to making enjoyable hit movies that you'd be stupid to bet against. And I don't see what this has to do with Alita.

Don't agree with the bolded. I think that while they did pick Carol Danvers in order to do a female-led solo movie ("about damn time," as the Wasp once put it), I think the reason that she was picked was to use a notable character that would give them options for the future, not to shaft the original, who, to be honest, ceased to be "relevant" a long time ago. (In other words, I think that not using Mar-Vell was along the lines of the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies ignoring Gwen Stacy and having Mary Jane be the love of Peter Parker's life from day one.)

But, yeah, I do agree that the Captain Marvel hate has so far been really unfounded and the "it vs. Alita" thing is one of the most manufactured things I have ever seen in fanbases to date. Neither movie has anything to do with the other and there's more then room for both.

Alita was good, but it wasn't perfect. The lead actress and the cgi department seem to have worked together very smoothly to make the lead character very appealing (which is a big win for the film), and the action scenes totally kill (seriously some of the best fight scenes I've seen for a while); on the other hand the love interest and all the other characters, save for Waltz, are kind of just there. So you've got a film that, imo, has enough going for it to work, a film that I would definitely watch again, but one with a number of weak spots that the critics have seized upon.

I think that's were I stand on the movie myself. Good point about the cast. When first seeing the movie, I did think that Rosa Salazar and Christoph Waltz easily delivered the best performances and that the father/daughter relationship Alita and Ido developed was the most compelling character material. But, yeah, while the cast was good, a lot of the supporting characters were underdeveloped in terms of writing. Really good action scenes, but the plot has some problems at the end. I'll probably be getting the BluRay myself and want the sequel to get made, but it's not the perfect movie some have been branding it.

I think Alita deserves to do well, maybe better than it's doing at the moment, but I don't get why Alita supporters seem to be so aggressive towards other films.

Well, I don't think all supporters are. I'm a supporter and I'm not. However, I think the most vocal "supporters" are the crowd that was already hating on Captain Marvel and are using Alita as a convenient weapon to bash it further (it another female-led blockbuster being released around the same time and the somewhat mixed response makes it the perfect foil for Captain Marvel, which has good odds of being a financial and critical success).

I didn't even know what Brie Larson said until one of the other posters quoted what she said but somehow this has been translated into another attack on "white men". Like, seriously??

Seriously. One of those cyberbullying jokers on YouTube has been steadily trying to character assassinate Brie Larson by twisting her words in exactly that way. It's nuts, but it confirms his own biases.

[Immortal Weapon]

Fandom Rivalry screwed this thread up something fierce.

I watched this movie last night and I enjoyed. I never read the manga or the OVA so I was going in fresh. I loved the fight scenes and the CG of this movie. That alone was worth the price of admission for me.

[Panic]

I think that while they did pick Carol Danvers in order to do a female-led solo movie ("about damn time," as the Wasp once put it), I think the reason that she was picked was to use a notable character that would give them options for the future, not to shaft the original, who, to be honest, ceased to be "relevant" a long time ago. (In other words, I think that not using Mar-Vell was along the lines of the Sam Raimi Spider-Man movies ignoring Gwen Stacy and having Mary Jane be the love of Peter Parker's life from day one.)

I wasn't suggesting that picking Carol over Mar-Vell was the problem, but that Marvel have decided that Carol is their big feminist figure and have (in the comics) tried to make Mar-Vell irrelevant to Carol's origin by changing her power's origin to coming from her mother rather than being "copied" off a male originator; film-wise they've made room in the film to honour fellow Captain Marvel Monica Rambeau, but the speculation is that Carol will inherit her powers from her mother, who may well be named "Mar-Vell". I said a long time ago I had no problem with them omitting Mar-Vell from the film if they weren't taking much from him, but it is looking like they're using a number of things from his mythology. This is a bit more like making a War Machine movie without mentioning Tony Stark.


Anyway, back to Alita. I think despite the lukewarm reviews it's artistically far more success than failure and should build up a following. I just hope it does better than Dredd did when it was in a similar position (and critics gave that film lukewarm reviews because it had unfortunate similarities to the same year's The Raid, though now general opinion is that it's a minor classic) and generates enough sales to get a full-budget sequel. I mean, you've got a great heroine, and she's the heart of the movie franchise, the most important part - all the rest can be improved on in sequels. I think a sequel, provided it's of similar budget, should get a bigger audience next go around, once more people have seen the original.

[DragonsChi]

I understand where you’re coming from and I agree with you on some part.

Although we will have to disagree on the fan attacking part because I can’t believe that people pre-emptively attacking CM are actually comic fans or fans of the character at all. I also don’t believe that Larson’s comments should draw that sort of reaction from anyone. I’m also of African descent and I know how sensitive this stuff is but at the same time I just don’t believe nor subscribe to outrage culture regardless of the context. Larson was making a valid point that to me should be discussed and not simply lead to her being attacked. So far people aren’t being insulted directly (although I feel that people have started to take everything as an insult these days), I feel dialogue and polite disagreement is always the best option but people these days prefer outrage. Just like the Milos Manara controversy, Batgirl cover controversy, Riri Williams “sexualised cover controversy”t.c, I just don’t buy into the “pearl clutching” people are so quick to do these days. The outrage thing has seeped into comic buying audience hence the constant disagreement over..minute stuff. Like we both agreed upon, people need to open their minds and make decisions for themselves.

Getting outraged by everything means that one is being played by the folks trying to control the argument.

I'm not entirely sure we disagree. But I will say this... if Brie had of handle things better there wouldn't be anything to rage about. The bigots could be called out and the media would have less to report on. Captain Marvel would have been just another Marvel movie, similar to how Black Panther was. Instead we have "Brie Larson: Fans Love Her" and "Brie Larson: Fans Hate Her".

Where are the interviews of Brie Larson talking about what an honor it is to play the character? Where are the interviews of Brie Larson talking about why Carol is interesting? How come Brie hasn't pulled out a moment in the books or something that she was told that happen in story?

And I mean real dialogue not click phrases like "She is a strong Female" and so on. Robert Downey , Chris Evans, and Chadwick all gave you glimpses into who the characters where and why they enjoyed playing the characters. So far Captain Marvels Press tour has been all about Brie. So when Brie says somethings that seem exclusive guess who is getting attacked? It's not Captain Marvel.

If people are paying attention most of the negative buzz isn't about Captain Marvel, Carol Danvers, Female Superhero, or being another Marvel movie in the long stream of Marvel movies. There about Brie. That's it.

From what I can tell people don't want to see the Captain Marvel movie because it's "Carol Danvers, Female Superhero". They don't want to see it because of Brie Larson.

EDIT:
There have been other Comic/Nerd Female led movies and none of them have been this divisive before the movie came out. Like this one Atlia: Battle Angel. Terminator 1&2 , Wonder Woman, Kill Bill and others. Nerd/Comic culture loves all of those films as a whole.

Like it or not Brie open the door for negativity and it walked right on, helped itself to a beer from the fridge, and sat on the couch.

About the direct market, the problem I have is the format of the direct market, it’s just darn too insular. People like to jump up and down and claim comics are dying but they really aren’t, it’s just that we’ve reached the limit of the direct market. Lots of excellent smaller titles get crushed because retailers literally want to push the same superheroes over and over again. I got into comics reading titles like Firestorm, Ghost Rider and Defenders and these titles managed to get hundreds of issues, this just doesn’t happen anymore. Nowadays, the focus is only on the bigger and more popular characters because retailers find them easier to sell. I feel there’s a better way to sell comics to people but we haven’t just figured it out.

In the last 5-7 years DC Comics dropped their entire line of comics to 52 and now 22 books. Comics use to sell in the hundreds of thousands even when they stop being sold in grocery stores and news stands.
So no offense but anyone who thinks comics is doing just fine is asleep at the wheel.

[Mormel]

It is a fascinating discussion, but one that merits its own separate thread. Maybe the posts can be split off into a new thread.

[AJBopp]

Like it or not Brie open the door for negativity and it walked right on, helped itself to a beer from the fridge, and sat on the couch.

You keep saying this without referring to this horrible thing she apparently said. Was it this?

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/br...cs-1201974617/

Because the only thing rage-inducing there is if you are determined to be enraged. The point is both obvious and needs to be said much, much more.

[DragonsChi]

You keep saying this without referring to this horrible thing she apparently said. Was it this?

https://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/br...cs-1201974617/

Because the only thing range-inducing there is if you are determined to be enraged. The point is both obvious and needs to be said much, much more.

I actually never said what she said was horrible. I also actually stated in a pervious post that there was nothing wrong for what she said. All I said was that she is handling it the wrong way. I'm not against her or the film.

If handled differently this same message would be a slam dunk and the movie would be praised in droves. But when you are wrong you are wrong. Regardless of personal feelings on the matter.

I also can admit that Disney/Marvel seems to weirdly absent in cleaning this up or coaching Brie on how to correctly handle it.

[dreyga2000]

I'm starting to get the feeling that a lot of the people who are promoting Alita are doing so just spite Captain Marvel which seems unnecessary***.

[Immortal Weapon]

I'm starting to get the feeling that a lot of the people who are promoting Alita are doing so just spite Captain Marvel which seems necessary.

The people I see promote the movie are anime fans. Hollywood finally did a good adaption and they are more like it.

[WebLurker]

I'm starting to get the feeling that a lot of the people who are promoting Alita are doing so just spite Captain Marvel which seems necessary.

I think there is some of that, but there are also people doing it who liked the movie. I think you can tell which is which by how the promotion is framed (e.g. is it being used to tear down Captain Marvel or promote Alita on its own merits?).

[Panic]

I'm starting to get the feeling that a lot of the people who are promoting Alita are doing so just spite Captain Marvel which seems necessary.

It's a good movie if you like sci-fi-kung-fu action, so it's not a surprise it's gaining a following. The idea that people are only raving about it to spite Captain Marvel is not really credible.

I just don't see why they're wasting time dissing a film that isn't even out yet.

[Jeramas]

James Cameron has gone on a rant lately about comic movies. From Avengers hating to questioning wonder woman's feminist role to Aquaman's effect. I expect him to extend his rant to captain marvel. lol. it will only fuel the rivalry but James Cameron has the merit on his side. if the rivalry blows up, I won't be worried about Alita.

In other good news, my girl Alita is doing well in china.

[dreyga2000]

It's a good movie if you like sci-fi-kung-fu action, so it's not a surprise it's gaining a following. The idea that people are only raving about it to spite Captain Marvel is not really credible.

I just don't see why they're wasting time dissing a film that isn't even out yet.

I feel like you missed the part where I said a lot of people, not all of the people. Big difference between the two

[Panic]

Yeah, I actually did miss that. Sorry, didn't mean to misrepresent what you said.

I still don't think that's the case, though. The film is good. Have you seen it yet?

[dreyga2000]

Yeah, I actually did miss that. Sorry, didn't mean to misrepresent what you said.

I still don't think that's the case, though. The film is good. Have you seen it yet?

I will if I ever get ahead on my homework. I've heard good things