Alan Moore’s opinion one the Killing Joke

[Darkseid Is]

Even if the story stinks (which myself and most people don't think it does) it's a classic for that art. Brian Bolland is something else.

[kingaliencracker]

I think the story would have been better had it been almost entirely Joker focused (with Batman only showing up in the beginning and the end), and had Jim/Barbara not been used as the plot device for the story.

It is very well written, regardless of its flaws and Moore's feelings about it. To be fair, Moore is kind of cynical and I'm tired of hearing about how he's mad at the industry for "misunderstanding" stories like Watchmen and Killing Joke, when it's pretty clear to me Moore was really wanting to deconstruct super heroes in the 80's.

[Osiris-Rex]

The main thing I dislike is making canon Barbara getting wounded. Moore never meant that to be anything but sort of an elseworlds thing.

[BruceWayneJr.]

John Ostrander made hay of it with Oracle in Suicide Squad and I'm grateful.

[Gurz]

John Ostrander made hay of it with Oracle in Suicide Squad and I'm grateful.

who cares about Suicide Squad ? NO ONE !!!!! lol But every new reader or casual whoever interested in Batman read The Killing Joke, it's ever green and DC makes shit ton of money over it yet they made Barbara walk again and shit on Killing Joke... Unforgivable...

[SiegePerilous02]

who cares about Suicide Squad ? NO ONE !!!!! lol But every new reader or casual whoever interested in Batman read The Killing Joke, it's ever green and DC makes shit ton of money over it yet they made Barbara walk again and shit on Killing Joke... Unforgivable...

The Killing Joke already shit on Barbara. Turn around is fair play. It's not even that great of a Batman/Joker story anyway. It's really elevated for being so different at the time and for the art.

Ostrander and Yale did some excellent damage control for something that either shouldn't have happened period or shouldn't have been made canon in the first place.

[oasis1313]

I wish Brian Bolland would do some new artwork.

[kingaliencracker]

The main thing I dislike is making canon Barbara getting wounded. Moore never meant that to be anything but sort of an elseworlds thing.

I've never read that Moore believed he was writing anything other than a canonical tale.

I have read him say that he believed DC would have just figured out a way for Barbara to walk again if/when they wanted to bring back Batgirl. Fans tend to forget Barbara wasn't donning the cape and cowl for a little while prior to TKJ.

[kingaliencracker]

The Killing Joke already shit on Barbara. Turn around is fair play. It's not even that great of a Batman/Joker story anyway. It's really elevated for being so different at the time and for the art.

Ostrander and Yale did some excellent damage control for something that either shouldn't have happened period or shouldn't have been made canon in the first place.

Had Moore been less popular at the time, or TKJ wasn't well received, the probability is that DC would have just used some wonky plot device to restore Barbara when they wanted to do Batgirl again. Because of its popularity, they were compelled to follow its aftermath for several years.

[Gurz]

The Killing Joke already shit on Barbara. Turn around is fair play. It's not even that great of a Batman/Joker story anyway. It's really elevated for being so different at the time and for the art.

Ostrander and Yale did some excellent damage control for something that either shouldn't have happened period or shouldn't have been made canon in the first place.

Killing joke is the best Joker story ever. I like Barbara but she was better as oracle, Cassandra Cain was so much more bad ass as Batgirl. They shit on cass and killing joke to bring back barbara batgirl... Two things i really love and this costed DC, i quited DC for 3 years back then. I like the brats but i'm always ok with giving them to joker to play 'cause i like joker even more. Killing Joke was in a whole another lvl, don't you understand ever green go to story for new comers' meaning ? that means the best story. Shitting on your best story is never smart. What's barbara's sales compared to Killing Joke ? lol DC will suffer for this. They already lost my money. I only get an omnibus here there and Batman and Nightwing deluxes. That's it. I used to get all the bat books and many DCU books as single issues, but never again.

[dancj]

To be fair, Moore is kind of cynical and I'm tired of hearing about how he's mad at the industry for "misunderstanding" stories like Watchmen and Killing Joke, when it's pretty clear to me Moore was really wanting to deconstruct super heroes in the 80's.

I don't think he's ever denied that.

The problem was that most writers missed the deconstruction part and just focused on the grim and gritty side.

[phonogram12]

I don't think he's ever denied that.

The problem was that most writers missed the deconstruction part and just focused on the grim and gritty side.

Exactly this. While I love a gritty crime story as much as the next guy, there is so much more to superhero comics than that, which I think some writers and editors seemed to forget at the time.

[SiegePerilous02]

Killing joke is the best Joker story ever. I like Barbara but she was better as oracle, Cassandra Cain was so much more bad ass as Batgirl. They shit on cass and killing joke to bring back barbara batgirl... Two things i really love and this costed DC, i quited DC for 3 years back then. I like the brats but i'm always ok with giving them to joker to play 'cause i like joker even more. Killing Joke was in a whole another lvl, don't you understand ever green go to story for new comers' meaning ? that means the best story. Shitting on your best story is never smart. What's barbara's sales compared to Killing Joke ? lol DC will suffer for this. They already lost my money. I only get an omnibus here there and Batman and Nightwing deluxes. That's it. I used to get all the bat books and many DCU books as single issues, but never again.

YMMV on it being the best Joker story ever. I think it set a precedent that has gradually ruined the Joker as a character, and now he's just a bland giggling slasher villain who writers feel compelled to have one up himself every time he appears.
TKJ doesn't get credit for writers reacting to what it did to Barbara and building her back up as Oracle, and it doesn't excuse it's crappy treatment of her. Cass is even further removed from it, she exists more because of Oracle being popular and the DCAU creating a resurgence in interest of the Batgirl brand, not TKJ.

I doubt Barbara being Batgirl again has had any dent on TKJ's evergreen status. It's an overrated story, but it sells. Lots of stupid stuff is popular and evergeen. Like the Bat works of Jeph Loeb.

[Slim Shady]

On it’s on it’s a good read but I probably would call it a tad overrated. And writers since then seem to look at it like, this is what I have to top when I use Joker, which has led to an overused, kinda generic Joker. That’s probably my biggest knock on TKJ.

[oasis1313]

Moore could have left out the pervy stuff.