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  1. #31
    small press afficionado matt levin's Avatar
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    I was there when this first was published, and yeah, it was BIG! "Nobody'd ever done this in comics Before!" and all that, and, of course, it looks beautiful with Bolland's artwork. But in the time that's passed, I've come to agree with Moore's comments (as originally posted here, and don't read this with much of the enthusiasm I first greeted it. "Year One" holds up far much better for me, and, to me, seems to've had a far greater influence on comics writing overall.
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  2. #32
    Incredible Member Slim Shady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt levin View Post
    I was there when this first was published, and yeah, it was BIG! "Nobody'd ever done this in comics Before!" and all that, and, of course, it looks beautiful with Bolland's artwork. But in the time that's passed, I've come to agree with Moore's comments (as originally posted here, and don't read this with much of the enthusiasm I first greeted it. "Year One" holds up far much better for me, and, to me, seems to've had a far greater influence on comics writing overall.
    I agree Year One holds up better. And Dark Knight Returns.

  3. #33
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt levin View Post
    I was there when this first was published, and yeah, it was BIG! "Nobody'd ever done this in comics Before!" and all that, and, of course, it looks beautiful with Bolland's artwork. But in the time that's passed, I've come to agree with Moore's comments (as originally posted here, and don't read this with much of the enthusiasm I first greeted it. "Year One" holds up far much better for me, and, to me, seems to've had a far greater influence on comics writing overall.
    Agreed, Year One is a superior book. Still reads really well today.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jøker View Post
    Quick question why dose Alan Moore dislike his work in the Killing Joke? The comic has gone down as one of the most famous comics of all time yet the author despises it.
    He doesn't like it because it isn't very good.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    YMMV on it being the best Joker story ever. I think it set a precedent that has gradually ruined the Joker as a character, and now he's just a bland giggling slasher villain who writers feel compelled to have one up himself every time he appears.
    TKJ doesn't get credit for writers reacting to what it did to Barbara and building her back up as Oracle, and it doesn't excuse it's crappy treatment of her. Cass is even further removed from it, she exists more because of Oracle being popular and the DCAU creating a resurgence in interest of the Batgirl brand, not TKJ.

    I doubt Barbara being Batgirl again has had any dent on TKJ's evergreen status. It's an overrated story, but it sells. Lots of stupid stuff is popular and evergeen. Like the Bat works of Jeph Loeb.
    Overrated ? lol Jeph Loeb long halloween is stupid ?!?!?? lol please do tell me what are your favorite Batman stories ? 'cause you call the best stuff stupid... evergreen everloved best Batman works are stupid for you... tell me a smart one then ? i can't wait to hear it... lol

  6. #36
    Astonishing Member dancj's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Overrated ? lol Jeph Loeb long halloween is stupid ?!?!?? lol please do tell me what are your favorite Batman stories ? 'cause you call the best stuff stupid... evergreen everloved best Batman works are stupid for you... tell me a smart one then ? i can't wait to hear it... lol
    You can rudely "lol" if you want, but those are both pretty common opinions.

    The Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Grant Morrison's run, Arkham Asylum: Living Hell, Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth, Batman vs Predator, Secrets, Batman/Grendel, Going Sane, Scarface: A Psychodrama, Year 100, Batman and the Monster Men, Dark Night Dark City, Broken City, City of Crime, Snow and Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader are all better IMO.

  7. #37
    Spectacular Member matthew's Avatar
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    Does Alan Moore like anything he's wrote?

  8. #38
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    Does Alan Moore like anything he's wrote?
    That is what I was going to say.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, SiKtC, Catwoman, Nightwing, Titans, Godzilla, Wonder Woman, Batman & Robin, Brave and the Bold, No/One, Kill your Darlings, and Deviant.
    My runs: Batman #230-, and Detective #420-

  9. #39
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    Arkham Asylum: Living Hell
    This anything like Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth? Cause I got that last summer and I swear outside of the innovative art I can't for the life of me understand how the hell this is a classic - I'm still trying to understand what the heck I read during parts of it. Confusing as heck.


    Batman vs Predator
    Next time I get enough cash to justify expanding my collection again I plan on getting this one along with White Knight and the Batman Dracula trilogy. How good is it?

  10. #40
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew View Post
    Does Alan Moore like anything he's wrote?
    It's not an uncommon affliction among writers that they come to hate the things they've written, after some time has passed. I know at least two writers who does (not counting Moore).

    However, what I've read of Moore's critique of TKJ is that it is rather nuanced and very well-reasoned.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  11. #41
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    It's not an uncommon affliction among writers that they come to hate the things they've written, after some time has passed. I know at least two writers who does (not counting Moore).

    However, what I've read of Moore's critique of TKJ is that it is rather nuanced and very well-reasoned.
    Eh, I've never been a fan of hating something because of the fans of the thing, and while not the only reason he states for it that he doesn't like the story at least partially because some fans and writers learned the wrong lessons from it rubs the wrong way. It's like hating the Dark Knight Returns for the Dark Age in Comics it inspired rather than for anything about the story itself.

  12. #42
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Eh, I've never been a fan of hating something because of the fans of the thing, and while not the only reason he states for it that he doesn't like the story at least partially because some fans and writers learned the wrong lessons from it rubs the wrong way. It's like hating the Dark Knight Returns for the Dark Age in Comics it inspired rather than for anything about the story itself.
    *shrug*

    To me, Moore has every just as much right to publically dislike a story as anyone else, and it doesn't seem to me he hates the story either; to me it sounds like he has left it behind himself, and prefers not to dwell on it anymore.

    His critique of the story seems to follow along two lines: One is that he doesn't feel that it managed to convey what he intended it to convey. Another is that it is too nasty and violent in and of itself (that includes the treatment of Babs; here he blames both himself and DC).

    To that he adds that he thinks that later creators took the wrong lessons from TKJ and Watchmen, but that is a separate line of thought from his critique of TKJ as a story.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  13. #43
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    Sometimes I think maybe Alan Moore never read comics before he began writing them. Or he just read Donald Duck or something. Anyone who was reading them in the 1970s saw those darker themes in abundance back then. The biggest difference was that he upped the ante a lot by over-victimizing the women of his story, like he always does. Plus he just has to rape someone every time.
    Every day is a gift, not a given right.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by dancj View Post
    You can rudely "lol" if you want, but those are both pretty common opinions.

    The Dark Knight Returns, Year One, Grant Morrison's run, Arkham Asylum: Living Hell, Arkham Asylum: Serious House on Serious Earth, Batman vs Predator, Secrets, Batman/Grendel, Going Sane, Scarface: A Psychodrama, Year 100, Batman and the Monster Men, Dark Night Dark City, Broken City, City of Crime, Snow and Whatever Happened to the Caped Crusader are all better IMO.

    So my loling is rude but he's calling my favorite stories stupid isn't ? Some of those stories that you mentioned are amazing and my favorites as well. May be only Morrison Run being and exception... i seem to still don't find anything extra ordinary about it but i will read it again because it's such a beloved run by many. I wouldn't certainly call it stupid... LOL

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    It's not an uncommon affliction among writers that they come to hate the things they've written, after some time has passed. I know at least two writers who does (not counting Moore).
    If they hate what they've written, they should give back the paycheck because obviously they did sucky work.

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