The DC shows in general

[Jokerz79]

Putting the cartoon writers on the shows would be the quickest route to cancellation. 42 minutes of fighting with just enough plot to string the fight sequences together is not a recipe for success.

JMS cut his teeth on He-Man, She-Ra, and Real Ghostbusters to name a few shows before doing live action. There is nothing on any CW show more "Adult or Sophisticated" or better written than Young Justice Outsiders. I'm not saying they should go with animation writers but writing them off just because they are from animation is dumb IMO.

[Agent Z]

JMS cut his teeth on He-Man, She-Ra, and Real Ghostbusters to name a few shows before doing live action. There is nothing on any CW show more "Adult or Sophisticated" or better written than Young Justice Outsiders. I'm not saying they should go with animation writers but writing them off just because they are from animation is dumb IMO.

No one said anything about the CW shows being more adult or sophisticated. The point is that taking people more used to working in animation and putting them in charge of live action stuff won't automatically yield good results. Just as how people more used to working in live action can turn in bad stuff when it comes to animation (see Peter Dinklage's poor vocal performance in the Destiny video game).

[Jokerz79]

No one said anything about the CW shows being more adult or sophisticated. The point is that taking people more used to working in animation and putting them in charge of live action stuff won't automatically yield good results. Just as how people more used to working in live action can turn in bad stuff when it comes to animation (see Peter Dinklage's poor vocal performance in the Destiny video game).

In the post I responded to there was definitely a shot taken at the quality of Animated shows writing with the

42 minutes of fighting with just enough plot to string the fight sequences together

Young Justice has tons of character development and growth and dealing with relationships and season long story arcs it's not just fighting with a flimsy plot to hold it together as implied in that post. I'd argue the Batman Assault on Arkham is better than the live action Suicide Squad heck Gods and Monsters, Gotham By Gaslight, Red Hood, Flashpoint Paradox, New Frontier, Reign of Supermen, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern First Flight are better than most comic book live action offerings so yeah I get defensive when their creators are dismissed especially when compared to the CW shows which while enjoyable aren't anything spectacular. As for acting voice acting and live action acting are totally different beast. The worst people to bring over to film or television is usually novelist with no history in comics, television, film, or screenplay writing. Now don't get me wrong novels are usually the best for in depth character development and immersive stories but many novelist don't grasp when trying to crossover film is a visual medium above all else.

Again not saying any show should go with someone with an animation history just they're also not a bad choice either.

[C_Miller]

Young Justice has tons of character development and growth and dealing with relationships and season long story arcs it's not just fighting with a flimsy plot to hold it together as implied in that post. I'd argue the Batman Assault on Arkham is better than the live action Suicide Squad heck Gods and Monsters, Gotham By Gaslight, Red Hood, Flashpoint Paradox, New Frontier, Reign of Supermen, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern First Flight are better than most comic book live action offerings so yeah I get defensive when their creators are dismissed especially when compared to the CW shows which while enjoyable aren't anything spectacular. As for acting voice acting and live action acting are totally different beast. The worst people to bring over to film or television is usually novelist with no history in comics, television, film, or screenplay writing. Now don't get me wrong novels are usually the best for in depth character development and immersive stories but many novelist don't grasp when trying to crossover film is a visual medium above all else.

Again not saying any show should go with someone with an animation history just they're also not a bad choice either.

To be fair, most of the films you mentioned were pretty much true to the story adaptations. Young Justice is a great example of good writing in animated film/television, but those direct to video animated features have the comics to do most of the heavy lifting.

[choptop]

Meh I like them more than the marvel shows.

[stargazer01]

#2 has a lot to do with those shows being on the CW. Gotta to appeal to the network core demo. The DC shows that ain't on the CW like Gotham don't have those issues.

The DC shows on the CW focus too much on romantic angst geared to young adults. I can't watch those shows anymore because the writing is weak and contrived for me.

My favorite DC show right now is Krypton on Syfy because that show has a totally different feel. It's more dramatic and science fiction focused. And the season 1 arc actually had a great payoff at the end and solid character development for most of the characters. Can't wait for season 2.

I haven't seen the shows on the DCU app yet, but Titans didn't appeal to me going by the trailers and sneak peeks.

[Captain Smith]

I forgot about Krypton. Good catch. I don't watch streaming or app shows. Not that interested to sign up for a myraid of services for a few shows.

I certainly agree about romantic angst. It's corrupting quite a few shows. I used to like Law and Order SVU until it became focused on the baby momma angst of its female stars. In fact, I found it insulting as it made the women desperate to have a baby or keep a baby and those story lines interfered with the criminal aspect that used to make the L and O shows quite interesting.

[Osiris-Rex]

I certainly agree about romantic angst. It's corrupting quite a few shows. I used to like Law and Order SVU until it became focused on the baby momma angst of its female stars. In fact, I found it insulting as it made the women desperate to have a baby or keep a baby and those story lines interfered with the criminal aspect that used to make the L and O shows quite interesting.

You would be hard pressed to find any TV show currently airing that doesn't have some sort of romance or family drama story going on. So I don't understand why people think superhero shows should be an outlier.
After all these are stories about people too. It can't just be the hero going around punching people in the face. And for a certain segment of the fandom the romance angles are the reason they watch the shows.
Look at all the people shipping various couples, Olicity (Oliver and Felicity), Westallen (Iris and Barry), Snowbarry (Caitlin and Barry), SuperCorp (Kara and Lena), Sanvers (Alex and Maggie), Karamel (Kara and Mon-El).
So by leaving out the romance they would lose a big chunk of the audience.

[Immortal Weapon]

You would be hard pressed to find any TV show currently airing that doesn't have some sort of romance or family drama story going on. So I don't understand why people think superhero shows should be an outlier.
After all these are stories about people too. It can't just be the hero going around punching people in the face. And for a certain segment of the fandom the romance angles are the reason they watch the shows.
Look at all the people shipping various couples, Olicity (Oliver and Felicity), Westallen (Iris and Barry), Snowbarry (Caitlin and Barry), SuperCorp (Kara and Lena), Sanvers (Alex and Maggie), Karamel (Kara and Mon-El).
So by leaving out the romance they would lose a big chunk of the audience.

The romance on other superhero shows don't hijack the plot like it often happens with the CW shows. Even shows like Cloak & Dagger and Runaways that are teen dramas don't have the level of romantic plot tumor a typical episode of Arrow, Flash and Supergirl has.

[AJBopp]

You would be hard pressed to find any TV show currently airing that doesn't have some sort of romance or family drama story going on. So I don't understand why people think superhero shows should be an outlier.

The issue I had with the CW dramance (when I was still watching them) was not that it exists, but that - much like the season-long villain thing - these plots tended to be over-long, dragged out, terribly contrived affairs that offer little in the way of substantive development either in plot or character. People do and say things - or more likely fail to do and say things - not because it makes sense or is interesting, but because it fills time.

[Jokerz79]

The romance on other superhero shows don't hijack the plot like it often happens with the CW shows. Even shows like Cloak & Dagger and Runaways that are teen dramas don't have the level of romantic plot tumor a typical episode of Arrow, Flash and Supergirl has.

Love interests are great but the DC CW shows have a trend of them Hijacking the shows and diminishes their heroes in the process people started calling Arrow the Felicity Chronicles, We are Flash on Flash, and Mon-El constantly saving or over shadowing Kara. It's why no matter it's early 00's and show issues I still consider Smallville DC's best CW show simply because it never did that to Clark and they were juggling not only love interests but other heroes by it's end.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I enjoyed the first few seasons of all the CW shows, but I have stopped watching all of them regularly except for Legends of Too Meow Meow, because that show is all kinds of crazy awesome goofiness.

It's not that the shows are bad, it's just that I'm not really interested anymore in the long-form YA soap opera that is these show's bread and butter. I'm interested in the wild superhero action and their budgets simply can't deliver that on an episodic basis. So, I just tune in for the big crossovers, and the season finales, which always have great recaps of all the cool stuff I missed.

[GOLGO 13]

Just my thoughts as I lost my enthusiasm for them:

...
This focus killed the Anita Blake books. An interesting vampire world was spoiled by 100s of pages of Anita's numerous and convoluted love life...

I tried to read one of her books, but it's everything you mentioned & felt even worse to me. Anita Blake is a human-ho for impossibly handsome supernatural "monsters" that cant resist perusing her. It's that whole sparkly vampire & bare chested wolf man thing but for 30 something's.

[stargazer01]

The romance on other superhero shows don't hijack the plot like it often happens with the CW shows. Even shows like Cloak & Dagger and Runaways that are teen dramas don't have the level of romantic plot tumor a typical episode of Arrow, Flash and Supergirl has.

Exactly. I actually like romance a lot, but the CW's style is not for me; it's too angsty and contrived with little payoff or nothing at all. It was so bad in Arrow season 3 (when Ray showed up..) and Supergirl season 3 that I just couldn't watch anymore. What's the point to get emotionally invested when the relationships don't mean much and are just contrived to get you watching. Not for me. Krypton on syfy also does some romance but it's not the focus at all. It's just a little subplot. The story actually focuses on Science Fiction and real drama and does character development well and organically IMO. at least so far.

And Flash also got too silly and cheesy last season with weak villains I just lost all interest. I liked the first and second seasons but after that the writing just didn't do it for me. There is still the occasional good episode, but I need more consistency. I think the main problem on the CW shows is that the writers in general just aren't very good, and the focus of the network are teens.

If I want a comedy, there are other shows that do it much better, and if I want pure romance, I can watch The Hallmark channel lol.

[Sandy Hausler]

A lot of fans of The Flash don't care for how important Iris has become to the show. But Iris is an integral part of the source material.

She is an important part of the source material, but she's not the head of Team Flash. (I realize that comic characters don't generally have these "teams" that are crucial to the TV shows, but, as far as I know, Iris never was involved with the Flash's work, except possibly if it involved a story she was working on (and I don't even remember that happening very much, if at all -- but I haven't regularly read the Flash since before COIE).

Sandy Hausler