Agents of Atlas appreciation 2019

[Tien Long]

The team book was likely overshipped last month. Just look at the difference between the unit and dollar ranking (58 to 139). The book is probably selling now what it would normally sell without an overship, that's all. Sword Master was probably overshipped too, but it was already under the 20k mark, so it's not exactly shocking that it's low now. Aero is the one that seems to have genuinely plummeted, since it doesn't seem like there was much of an overship in September (as a matter of fact, its dollar ranking was actually higher than the unit ranking). The sales for the one-shots were also pretty underwhelming. It's looks like the AOA initiative is simply not catching on in the american direct market, which is not to say those characters can't survive through other markets.

Ah man, I hope it retains some popularity. Relying on a non-American market would not be enough to support the book. Still too many stories and characters for the agents. Don't want them to split off to other teams or become guests stars in the Avengers or X-Men just yet .

[Digifiend]

Yeah, Amadeus might be in trouble now short of Champions relaunching, and Silk's situation is just as bad, as she needs another spider book to utilise her (before Atlas, she was appearing in Spider-Man/Deadpool). The new characters will just wind up being limboed, and Aero and Sword Master could see future chapters of their solos go untranslated. The solicits for #7 didn't mention the backups, I wonder if they end at #6 and the #7s are the last English issues? I guess we'll know next week.

[Digifiend]

Secondly, who is looking after Dan Bi now? Since her parents are gone, who is her family?

Is that school Jimmy runs a boarding school? If so, that's probably Dan Bi's living arrangements now.

Well, we actually got an answer today.
spoilers:

She IS now attending that school.

end of spoilers

[Tien Long]

Well, we actually got an answer today.
spoilers:

She IS now attending that school.

end of spoilers

Loved that detail about the issue. Indeed, there was a lot going on in this week's story in terms of relevant Asian issues and character and story development. Pak threw a lot of things in the air, but did all of them stick the landing? Eh, not all. Here are my brief thoughts:

spoilers:

- Loved the ideas of ethnicity and class. One saw it when Pearl and Lin Lie confronted those tourists who were sticking their noses up at the Madripoorian refugees. As a Filipina, Pearl must have been on the receiving end of a lot of lighter skinned, richer Asians (and probably other Filipinos too) looking down upon her. There was a nice discussion b/w her and Luna about wealth. The dilmema of what to do with Pan comes to the forefront now. Yeah, Ngyuen's up to no good, but getting rid of Pan would adversely affect the Madripoorian refugees, no? So what do our heroes do about it? - Good character moments here. Amadeus being the in the field leader and splitting up the forces allowed characters to have character moments. Isaac and Raz had a good moment as did the elementals of the group. White Fox and her group? Eh, I was expecting some infiltration into Nguyen's big complex. Didn't have much of that. Of course, loved how Amadeus designated Shang as the one to talk to Jimmy. Shang has a presence of seniority. He could be the only one to reach Jimmy. - Jimmy is planning something with Ngyuen. Don't think the relationship is that simple though. Bet you 10 out of 10 that Jimmy is manipulating Ngyuen to build the portal city of Pan. To what end? And how do the dragons fit? Will one more issue settle that? We'll see. - Really great art with Leon. LIttle moments here and there that deserve another look.

end of spoilers

In any case, yeah, this was a satisfying issue. Here's hoping Pak sticks the landing with the last issue. And crossing the fingers that the Agents get an ongoing after the Atlantis story!

[Tuna]

As of today, I think I’ve finally caught up on all things New Agents of Atlas/Asian. I originally heard about all this over the summer and was pretty psyched but life got in the way and I initially decided to wait for the trades. Fast forward to today, a friend finally convinced me to support the cause so I went to my LCS where I picked up the most recent issues of AoA, Sword Master, Aero, and the Future Fight one shots. My friend lent me everything else I was missing, including the entire War of the Realms tie in. After 2-3 hours of binging (I read slowly) my reaction is… Not bad, not bad. Overall, I liked all the new characters and enjoyed watching them interact with one another. The stories have been colorful, fun, and there are plenty of relatable moments. As most of us know, Asians are underrepresented in comics so books like these are always appreciated and a step in the right direction.

Unfortunately, there’s just one big problem I have with it and I think I should address the elephant in the room. I’m not sure if anyone else has noticed or if they just want to avoid addressing it (or maybe I’m just really late to the party and it’s already been discussed to hell and back) but there is a HUGE difference in the ratio of Asian female heroes to Asian male HEROES (not villains… we seem to have plenty of those). Marvel and DC seem to LOVE their Asian girls and they’ve shown up in very decent numbers over the years and let’s be honest, were unfortunately fetishized. When you talk about the need for Asian representation, it’s the men that really need it.

I was pumped when I heard there would be an all Asian team with new heroes. With Greg Pak on board, I figured there was no way they could do us dirty and that they would use this as an opportunity to even up that ratio. Instead, when we got 6 new heroes in War of the Realms, FIVE of them ended up being female and just further exacerbated the problem. It should have literally been the other way around, though I would have been perfectly satisfied with an even 3-3 split. My problem isn’t that there’s more “girls” than “boys” on the team but that Marvel hasn’t changed at all. They still refuse to make a decent effort at creating Asian male heroes while churning out more Asian female heroes who already have some decent representation. So the team ends up being 5 new female characters, one existing female character, 3 existing male characters, and one new male character. I’m fine with having more women than men on the team, but the majority of the women on the team should have been some already established characters like Psylocke, Karma, Armor, Surge, Nico Minoru, Dust, etc. while the majority of the new characters should have been men.

Now let’s talk about the one new male character we did get, Lin Lie. His solo book so far is as slow as molasses. I understand that he’s supposed to be young and inexperienced and it’s supposed to be an origin story but at the end of the day, it’s a Marvel superhero book and there just needs to be some superheroing one way or another or else people are going to drop it. It’s been almost half a year since the book debuted and the next issue will round out the first arc as well as the first trade. Has he even picked up and swung the sword in the main story of the solo book yet? Is Marvel seriously going to sell an $18 trade paperback about a kid named Sword Master, who spends the entire book not using a sword?

I don’t know... to me the character and the execution of his story just seems so purposely half assed compared to how they treated the new female characters. It feels like they got so much more done with Dan Bi, Luna, and White Fox in their one-shots alone than they did with Lin Lie in his five issues and all of his Agents of Atlas appearances combined. And of course they just had to create Ji ShuangShuang to save the day and add in one more Asian girl. Does Aero have some random guy come in and save her in her books? Or is the only Asian male presence in that book contained to her helpless needy boyfriend?

I hate start off on such a negative note especially when I was so pumped about this some months ago but I felt it just needed to be said. I don’t dislike Asian women, or women in general, but it’s just really clear to me what Marvel is trying to do and they need to be called out on it. I still think representation for Asian women can definitely be improved not so much in numbers but in how they’re portrayed. I mean did Ji ShuangShuang really need to fight demons wearing shorts shorts while having her cleavage on display? I know Greg Pak or anyone at Marvel won’t ever see this but at least it’s out there.

As of now, I’ve decided to buy the next issue of Sword Master just to finish the arc and then drop the series. If I hear it improves, I’ll catch up to the current point with trades and then continue with floppies. As for supporting the rest of the books, I’m really conflicted. I do want to support Asian characters but I don’t want Marvel to think that they can simply get my money by churning out a bunch of hot Asian chicks. I guess I’ll figure it out over the next few weeks

Whew… that was a lot to type. I’d be happy if someone read a quarter of it lol. I’ll post my thoughts on the recent Agents of Atlas issue later tonight or tomorrow but right now I need a break from typing haha.

[H-E-D]

Asian men definitely still get the short end of the stick in media representation.

It's a little complicated with who is responsible for the new characters – but for the most part, it's not Greg Pak. He created Wave and Isaac Ikeda, but not the rest. Pak's work on Sword Master is just doing the dialogue for the translations and the backups – I'm very behind but according to the Marvel Wiki Ji ShuangShuang doesn't appear in the material Pak is personally responsible for. White Fox was created in a Korean webtoon, Sword Master and Aero are Chinese market originals, and Io and Luna Snow are from Future Fight, made by Netmarble Games (so, who knows who actually was involved in making her).

I'm not saying that as a counter to any of your points, but just to say the responsibility doesn't all fall on Greg Pak, or even Marvel's New York office.

[Tuna]

Some thoughts on the recent issue

spoilers:

Pearl and Lin Lie need MONEY. The struggle is real lol. Pearl has got an entire family to support and I’m pretty sure Lin Lie doesn’t even have parents anymore so that moneys got to come from somewhere. Not everyone’s a pop star or genius inventor. Even Shang has to hustle and get some day trading in. Glad those two did they same thing I do with my paycheck, buy sushi. I also found it weird with how Luna was already so out of touch with the value of money. Reading her one shot, she didn’t come from a rich family and had to work her ass off to get where she is today and suddenly now its, “$12 million settlement? No biggie.” There might be more to Nguyen than I previously thought. He’s still definitely shady, but I doubt Jimmy will be making a heel turn anytime soon so there must be a reason for their partnership. There were also a few examples of how Pan has changed people’s lives for the better in the issue and how much of a blow it would be if Pan were to shut down. It’s possible that maybe Nguyen and Jimmy started the Pan project with the best of intentions but Nguyen got money hungry and lost his way during the process. The Isaac and Raz fling is...pretty damn cute lol. Luna Cho seems to be over and while I wasn’t a huge fan of it, it was actually nice to see since most female Asian characters are usually paired up with non-asian partners and most Asian males are just flat out asexual. I think it’s crazy and really shows how bad things are that when I see an Asian male female couple, my reactions is, “Well that's something you don’t see that every day.” Didn’t care for it at first but after some thought, it was definitely progress and I’m sad to see it go so soon. I noticed in this, and a few other issues, that the elementals seem to be the answer to everything, which I am not a fan of. Their power set seems to make them so much stronger than everyone else so it’s always Elementals solve all our problems for us! Oh yeah and Shang, you can go check out that broom closet, Jimmy might be hiding there. I was initially hoping Sword Master might be on par with the elementals and could help with some of the heavy lifting, but I really don't have much hope for him anymore. Also it’s usually cool to see when the team breaks off into so you get to see how the characters interact interact with each other but since the elementals are so often grouped together, they lose some of that opportunity.

end of spoilers

Overall I enjoyed the issue and I’m interested in seeing where the last issue goes and what Nguyen's deal has been this entire time. Dan Bi and White Fox have had minimal screen time so hopefully they get their moment to shine. Aero and Sword Master didn't get too much time either but that's understandable as they each have their own solo books.

[Tuna]

Asian men definitely still get the short end of the stick in media representation.

It's a little complicated with who is responsible for the new characters – but for the most part, it's not Greg Pak. He created Wave and Isaac Ikeda, but not the rest. Pak's work on Sword Master is just doing the dialogue for the translations and the backups – I'm very behind but according to the Marvel Wiki Ji ShuangShuang doesn't appear in the material Pak is personally responsible for. White Fox was created in a Korean webtoon, Sword Master and Aero are Chinese market originals, and Io and Luna Snow are from Future Fight, made by Netmarble Games (so, who knows who actually was involved in making her).

I'm not saying that as a counter to any of your points, but just to say the responsibility doesn't all fall on Greg Pak, or even Marvel's New York office.

I hear you, and I know that Pak isn't responsible for creating the characters himself. I just mentioned him because I know he's down with the cause and was hoping that with him on board, maybe he'd try to influence someone and maybe pull something off, that's all. Just to be clear, I personally don't fault him for any of this, he just writes what he's given. I'm familiar with all the new characters origins so I know they don't all come from the same people. But what I do know is that whoever put that War of the Realms team together knew exactly what they were doing and that's what I have a problem with.

[Beetle]

At least the current mini added Raz Maholtra and Isaac Ikeda to the line up

[Tuna]

At least the current mini added Raz Maholtra and Isaac Ikeda to the line up

Raz is an old character but to be fair, I did forget Isaac. So just to recap, on the women's side we got 5 new characters. One is a secret agent/shapeshifting demon fox, another one is a tae kwon do prodigy who also has a mask that can summon an astral bear, while the remaining 3 are elemental users of wind, water and ice.

On the men's side, one of the two new characters we got is a guy named Sword Master who has... a magical sword... but he... uh...doesn't really know how to use it...but maybe he will in another year... or so... I think he's swung the sword around a few times... but never in the main story of his book... he's really good at puzzles though. Then we have Isaac who... also has a sword... it's not magical or anything... but he does swing it around more often...oh and his job is to protect Pan by fighting off dragons... but the elementals have fought off most the dragons thus far... hmmm... his hair is pretty cool. C'mon... it's just blatant at this point.

In all seriousness, I'm curious what Lin Lie's sword actually does? I know it's magical and that everyone wants it, but what does it actually do? Does it shoot green lasers? Can it cut through anything it touches? Does it grow bigger? Create portals? Let the wielder fly? My biggest fear is that the sword will just be used as an occasional deus ex machina once every 20 issues to banish some demon and the rest of the time it'll just act like a normal sword. Cryokinesis, hydrokinesis, and aerokinesis aren't exactly original powersets but they're a hell of a lot more interesting than swinging a plain sword around.

Any Chinese readers want to spoil a bit of the story for me? I heard the Chinese version is up to issue 12, possibly even farther. I hope it's not just Lin Lie following Ji ShuangShuang around the entire time while she kicks ass and he's being shown the ropes. Oh and have any other new heroes shown up in Aero's ongoing so far?

[Sutekh]

Sword Master is pretty dull, at present, particularly when more dynamic characters like Sunfire, Silver Samurai, Thunderbird 3, the Dragon from China Force, Dragon Lord's son, Whiz Kid and the Collective Man were already available (along with all the others I'm likely forgetting, and the many, many Asian ladies, from Colleen Wing and Jolt and Timeslip and Hazmat and Nico Minoru to Nature Girl, Sprite, Armor, Surge, Jubilee, Kwannon, etc.).

(I'm kind of expecting Petra, an earth manipulator from the X-Men, and either Sunfire, Sunpyre or Thunderbird 3, all fire-users, to show up at some point and have an elemental team-up with Wave and Luna Snow and Aero. Granted, 'air' isn't one of the five Chinese elements, but, whatev, it is one of the five Japanese elementa, at least!)

[Digifiend]

Oh and have any other new heroes shown up in Aero's ongoing so far?

No, but there's a reason for it. Aero's series is a solo book, but Sword Master's is NOT. In China, his book is called Warriors of Three Sovereigns. Ji Shuangshuang and Ah Cheng are also title characters, but Lin Lie has had the majority of the focus, hence the series' English name being his.

[Beetle]

White Fox isn't really new either, she's been in 616 comics since the Contest of Champions series. She had a short story in CW2 and was also in Domino's Hotshots book

[Tien Long]

A couple of thoughts:

- It's interesting that Tuna posted the idea that the new female characters outweigh the new male ones. I didn't see that before. For me, I reasoned that there were already some very established male Asian characters who acted as the counter. Jimmy, Amadeus, and especially Shang, for me, those guys made up the difference. I can see your point though. It's cool that there are new Asian female characters. Women in general in East Asian cultures don't get much attention. In American media, let's just say there's been a lot of fetishizing in relation to Asian women. Seeing Asian women in the Agents who aren't fantasies, but characters, well that's a plus.

But as an Asian-American male myself, who knows all too well of how much Asian males can be depicted as asexual, non-entities in American culture, more of this representation is needed. Now, Shang is always going to be my guy, but it shouldn't just end with Shang. It would be cool to see Sunfire, Silver Samurai, Red Lotus, or the other Asian male characters part of the team. I'm digging Sun Bird and War Tiger from Future Fight. Want them to show up soon.

- As for Lin Lie, I see the potential. I'm starting to see this neophyte, chosen one vibe. But I concede, his development has been a slow burn. A little too slow at times. He hasn't really used his sword much in the original Chinese series. A bit more development with him would be good. For me, every sword swing he does contributes to that development. Liked how he bested Isaac in the latest issue.

- As for the Elementals spoilers:

I can see what Tuna says about how they're always grouped together. They're a powerhouse, but we need to see them interact with the other characters. Spread the power around. Have a powerhouse backing up a street level. Gotta see more of that. Actually, interaction amongst all of the characters would be appreciated.

end of spoilers

[Beetle]

Luna has had some interactions with Amadeus and Silk, and she's been grouped with White Fox and Crescent since they're all from Future Fight and Korean.

spoilers:

And in this latest issue we saw Wave and Sword Master teaming up against the Pan Protectors and confronting Amadeus over it. That was a fun mishmash, we need more of that. We'll probably see some in Atlantis Attacks

end of spoilers