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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Default Overtly Christian mainstream characters ?

    I'm curious, with the 227,000 signatures against, and the cancellation of the “Second Coming” - https://www.newsarama.com/43906-dc-s...-canceled.html

    I'm not looking to discus the cancellation of that comic, there is an ongoing thread for that - . https://community.cbr.com/showthread...C-Comic/page14


    Although the premise is what makes me curious: My understanding of it is that the "superhero" Sun-Man is supposedly doing it right, while JC followers are supposedly doing it wrong, so JC had to come back to learn what he did wrong, from Sun-Man the proper "superhero".
    Lol, I can see why that would be offensive to some.

    What I'm wondering is what main stream, comic superheroes (if any), are doing it right, who express POSITIVELY some form of Christianity overtly?

    Please post pictures, panels, quotes etc of examples.

    To be specific, by mainstream I don't mean characters like Bibleman form company that is firstly religious.
    I mean popular mainstream characters from non religions mainstream comics, (who were for the most part designed to be heroes first), who just happen to also be or overtly express Christianity.
    In a positive way.

    I hope that difference is clear.

    I'm also curious are these (if any) characters popular with Christians, or not?
    What do they get right/wrong?
    Are they positive portrayals? Is there a conflict?
    Do you ever feel there is an appropriation of imagery or theme but with out content?
    How significant is it to the character, you liking it or not?
    I've noticed many christian themed heroes seem to focus on rejecting or questioning their faith as a part of empowerment. Thoughts?
    Or only use it ironically, or sometimes subverted, embrace or embody outright antithesis or devil/demonic imagery and themes?
    Or does it not make a difference?
    Specifically talking about the character here, not the religion itself. Or specify what it is exactly.
    Or even if you just want to post/celebrate any panels or imagery which displays it. (positive/negative?) describe?
    The same question to non Christians?

    Also not trying to exclude other religions or characters here, the same could be asked about any, and probably should, i'd be curious to see it.
    This thread is about christian characters specifically though.

    (FYI full disclosure I am not christian)

    Hope this thread is ok, and can be kept civil.
    Last edited by Güicho; 03-10-2019 at 08:08 PM.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    I guess I can start it off with a few ... Daredevil
    Curious as to the questions above, how the character is handled, seen etc...?





    Last edited by Güicho; 02-15-2019 at 08:39 PM.

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  4. #4
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Nightcrawler...?




  5. #5
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    I guess if Daredevil counts...
    Zorro counts too, as far as I can tell?

    In the old classic McCulley pulps, he was an ally of the padres in protecting the poor, and if his hand was ever forced to kill, he would pray for forgiveness.
    Although the telenovela the padre could handle himself https://i.imgflip.com/2wdcth.gif

    In the Powers film, and Disney series he was shown praying.
    Disney LOL stops to pray- https://i.imgflip.com/2ybrun.gif
    As well as the 1975 spaghetti -western film, where the murder of the padre absolves him of his vow never to kill.

    And in the more modern franchise ...




    Last edited by Güicho; 04-11-2019 at 08:32 AM.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    And from the telenovela (based on the Allende novel) .



    ------





    Not sure what's up with Hellboy?
    Last edited by Güicho; 03-18-2019 at 07:51 PM.

  7. #7
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Father Richard Craemer from Ostrander's Spectre serirs.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    Huntress... ?



    Huntress is wearing a cross for a necklace?

  9. #9
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    The first thing I thought of was classic Nightcrawler. He was often shown praying. His faith was shown as a positive thing. He tried to live it out by being compassionate. And at one point he was studying to be a priest.

    In contrast, although it made for interesting storytelling, Matt Murdock, was kind of a bad Catholic? He often gave into temptation, was angry, guilty, only showed up at church when something bad happened and didn't ask for absolution. He was basically there to sulk.
    As a Catholic, I was always appreciative of NIghtcrawler's and Daredevil's Catholicism. For the most part, both characters never seemed too "extreme" with their faith. Yes, Nightcrawler was at times a priest or Matt had confession, but they weren't depicted as being the extremists like the Church of Humanity members. They didn't condemn character's identity or insult a person because of their beliefs. That made me glad because Catholics (especially now) have had a ton of negative baggage associated with them. Additionally, their faith wasn't the main center of their character, merely a part of it. That part helped to enhance the whole. (We could say that about every character, right? Yes, Batwoman is a lesbian and that is certainly an important component of her character, but definitely not the only part. But I digress).

    That being said, while I don't feel Nightcrawler and Daredevil's Catholicism hasn't been depicted as being too overt, I could see how it could be perceived as such. A good instance of that for me was the NIghtcrawler episode of X-Men animated series. That was the first time I learned that Kurt was Christian and that episode definitely wore it on its sleeve:



    For me, that was pretty shocking. As a kid, I knew about separation of church and state. And here was Kurt talking about God on one of, if not THE, most popular Saturday morning cartoon shows. I wondered how the non-Christian kids would react to that. Apparently it didn't offend that many people, so that's a good thing.

    So in summary, yeah I think Catholic characters like Nightcrawler and Daredevil can be overt with their religion, but not to the point of offense or obnoxiousness. At times though, it has slightly gone to that edge.
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  10. #10
    Mighty Member Iron_Legion87's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    As a Catholic, I was always appreciative of NIghtcrawler's and Daredevil's Catholicism. For the most part, both characters never seemed too "extreme" with their faith. Yes, Nightcrawler was at times a priest or Matt had confession, but they weren't depicted as being the extremists like the Church of Humanity members. They didn't condemn character's identity or insult a person because of their beliefs. That made me glad because Catholics (especially now) have had a ton of negative baggage associated with them. Additionally, their faith wasn't the main center of their character, merely a part of it. That part helped to enhance the whole. (We could say that about every character, right? Yes, Batwoman is a lesbian and that is certainly an important component of her character, but definitely not the only part. But I digress).

    That being said, while I don't feel Nightcrawler and Daredevil's Catholicism hasn't been depicted as being too overt, I could see how it could be perceived as such. A good instance of that for me was the NIghtcrawler episode of X-Men animated series. That was the first time I learned that Kurt was Christian and that episode definitely wore it on its sleeve:



    For me, that was pretty shocking. As a kid, I knew about separation of church and state. And here was Kurt talking about God on one of, if not THE, most popular Saturday morning cartoon shows. I wondered how the non-Christian kids would react to that. Apparently it didn't offend that many people, so that's a good thing.

    So in summary, yeah I think Catholic characters like Nightcrawler and Daredevil can be overt with their religion, but not to the point of offense or obnoxiousness. At times though, it has slightly gone to that edge.
    I watched X-Men 90’s cartoon growing up and I don’t remember this episode, but that scene is interesting. As a Christian and a huge comic book and pop culture nerd, I did always appreciate comic book writers and characters having faith in a positive light. But i don’t think a scene like that could exist now in a 2019 X-Men cartoon without there being controversy from people.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    ... A good instance of that for me was the NIghtcrawler episode of X-Men animated series. That was the first time I learned that Kurt was Christian and that episode definitely wore it on its sleeve:



    For me, that was pretty shocking. As a kid, I knew about separation of church and state. And here was Kurt talking about God on one of, if not THE, most popular Saturday morning cartoon shows. I wondered how the non-Christian kids would react to that. Apparently it didn't offend that many people, so that's a good thing.

    So in summary, yeah I think Catholic characters like Nightcrawler and Daredevil can be overt with their religion, but not to the point of offense or obnoxiousness. At times though, it has slightly gone to that edge.
    It is interesting, and that was just one episode introducing a character, the show was never about, or ever became just about that.
    Ultimately the characters preach for tolerance, acceptance, no mater the faith.
    So was that the "correct" vehicle for the message? Was that even an issue?
    Clearly depends who you ask.
    I do wonder if today they could even do one episode like that, without some huge backlash that they were preaching or forcing one faith over others?
    Could they do a similar episode today? Or an episode where a character from another faith has words that invoke the same?
    Or would that have been denounced as promoting one over an other? Or to the contrary been celebrated as an even broader showing of tolerance?

    Does X-Men by nature, what they've come to represent, transcend them all? (should they?)
    How did people feel about this powerful scene...?




    Or...
    Last edited by Güicho; 03-19-2019 at 01:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Keeper of the Torch Ravin' Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tien Long View Post
    That being said, while I don't feel Nightcrawler and Daredevil's Catholicism hasn't been depicted as being too overt, I could see how it could be perceived as such. A good instance of that for me was the NIghtcrawler episode of X-Men animated series. That was the first time I learned that Kurt was Christian and that episode definitely wore it on its sleeve:
    I remembered that episode, and in a follow-up episode, Nightcrawler finally confronts Mystique who tells him the truth of his birth and abandonment.

    This clip cuts before Mystique, replying "I don't deserve your—" gets interrupted by Creed in a chopper firing on both of them; she shoves Kurt aside, is grazed by a bullet, and then finishes with "prayers" before falling into the river below the dam. And then we see the rest of the flashback; she was crying as she set Kurt adrift, because she loved him after all.
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  13. #13
    The Celestial Dragon Tien Long's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravin' Ray View Post
    I remembered that episode, and in a follow-up episode, Nightcrawler finally confronts Mystique who tells him the truth of his birth and abandonment.

    This clip cuts before Mystique, replying "I don't deserve your—" gets interrupted by Creed in a chopper firing on both of them; she shoves Kurt aside, is grazed by a bullet, and then finishes with "prayers" before falling into the river below the dam. And then we see the rest of the flashback; she was crying as she set Kurt adrift, because she loved him after all.
    Yeah, that was a good follow up episode. First off, it was funny to see how Rogue and Nightcrawler were related. Secondly, Nightcrawler's deep faith and compassion contrasted with Creed's overwhelming hate and bigotry. Seeing Nightcrawler and Mystique's relationship fully mentioned (it was pretty blatant in the first Nightcrawler episode) was nice. And you're right, seeing the normally cold, distant, and selfish Mystique really cry after having to throw away her child, that hit a lot of notes. Kurt really shined in that episode (though again it did edge on to the overt with the display of faith). He's lines to Creed, "May God help you brother," shows both his hopelessness and his hope. Just a really good episode.
    Last edited by Tien Long; 03-22-2019 at 06:24 PM.
    "I am a man of peace."

    "A man of peace...who fights like ten tigers."

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    Huntress is wearing a cross for a necklace?
    It seems Helena Bertinelli certainly did.
    Although not sure I get your question, when the images you quoted above even show it.
    A few more ...



    Other versions to some varying degree somewhat even worked the cross into the costume itself.



    As she did in Arrow, both as civilian and even in costume ..



    Quote Originally Posted by Zetsubou View Post
    Huntress is wearing a cross for a necklace?
    Yes.

    ?
    Last edited by Güicho; 03-10-2019 at 08:06 PM.

  15. #15
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Norman Mccay & The Spectre(by way of him, at least in Kingdom Come?) ? Although as far as I know the Spectre has never been identified with any specific religious affiliation.? If anything he seems more inspired by Jewish scripture, more compatible with the Old Testament with aspects of a once wrathful entity? So how does someone like Mccay process him?
    I honestly don't know?

    Last edited by Güicho; 02-20-2019 at 01:33 PM.

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