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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post

    The comment on complaining really rubs me. First, it implies that DiDio sees at least some fans as the enemy or the opposition. Second, he is asking people who are fully independent businesses from DC to shut up about grievances that might be fully legitimate. Third, it gives the impression that DC does not take complaints from fans or retailers seriously.
    That's not how I read it.

    From my point of view, DiDio asked retailers to not voice their complains to the fan but to address them to DC only. Which seems to me to be really standard procedure in company business, and even administrations. It's not unrealistic from a company to expect if not loyalty, at least not active sabotage from companies working with him lower down the chain of production and distribution.

    DiDio wasn't saying that fans and retailers' complains are unwelcome. He asked the latter to not spread negativity toward DC to the fans coming to buy comics, which is quite understandable from a company viewpoint. DC wants to sell more comics and if a new reader come into a comic store only to hear that "DC does that which is bad" and "DC didn't do this when it should have", it'll generate a certain amount of negativity which can drive him away from DC in the end.

  2. #107
    Astonishing Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    He also throws more shade at the fans:
    My god. How up his own ass can one person be? I'm not advocating mob rule, wherein DC has to cower to every demand it's readers want, but they're DiDio's customers for crying out loud. He's part of a for-profit corporation. You have to respect the fans to at least some degree.

  3. #108
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    That's not how I read it.

    From my point of view, DiDio asked retailers to not voice their complains to the fan but to address them to DC only. Which seems to me to be really standard procedure in company business, and even administrations. It's not unrealistic from a company to expect if not loyalty, at least not active sabotage from companies working with him lower down the chain of production and distribution.

    DiDio wasn't saying that fans and retailers' complains are unwelcome. He asked the latter to not spread negativity toward DC to the fans coming to buy comics, which is quite understandable from a company viewpoint. DC wants to sell more comics and if a new reader come into a comic store only to hear that "DC does that which is bad" and "DC didn't do this when it should have", it'll generate a certain amount of negativity which can drive him away from DC in the end.
    Fans and Retailers are allowed to be negative, look at the handling of characters like Wally West or Nightwing- Characters with very loyal fanbases who DiDio doesnt like and so takes opportunities to sabotage at any opportunity. It sounds like You're saying that its not Ok for the Fans of those characters who dont like how DiDio Comics is handling them with Ric and everything they've done to Wally West to voice those concerns because it could put new readers off if its the first thing they hear. Not to get hostile but thats what I got from interpreting what you've said
    Pull List:
    DC: Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood: Outlaw, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Young Justice, Legion of Superheroes, John Constantine: Hellblazer, Batman Beyond, Dark Nights: Death Metal
    MARVEL: Fantastic Four, Daredevil, The Immortal Hulk, Venom, Web of Venom, Dawn of X
    BOOM STUDIOS: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willow, Angel and Spike
    DARK HORSE: Bill and Ted are doomed.
    IMAGE: The Walking Dead: Deluxe

  4. #109
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    They're definitely allowed to complain. They can't be forcibly stopped from speaking negatively. He's just asking they don't. They can ignore that request if they want.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  5. #110
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    My god. How up his own ass can one person be? I'm not advocating mob rule, wherein DC has to cower to every demand it's readers want, but they're DiDio's customers for crying out loud. He's part of a for-profit corporation. You have to respect the fans to at least some degree.
    This is why I've gone back to reading predominantly Marvel, He physically cant help but throw shade at fans and sabotage things he doesnt personally like
    Pull List:
    DC: Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood: Outlaw, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Young Justice, Legion of Superheroes, John Constantine: Hellblazer, Batman Beyond, Dark Nights: Death Metal
    MARVEL: Fantastic Four, Daredevil, The Immortal Hulk, Venom, Web of Venom, Dawn of X
    BOOM STUDIOS: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willow, Angel and Spike
    DARK HORSE: Bill and Ted are doomed.
    IMAGE: The Walking Dead: Deluxe

  6. #111
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    Fans and Retailers are allowed to be negative, look at the handling of characters like Wally West or Nightwing- Characters with very loyal fanbases who DiDio doesnt like and so takes opportunities to sabotage at any opportunity. It sounds like You're saying that its not Ok for the Fans of those characters who dont like how DiDio Comics is handling them with Ric and everything they've done to Wally West to voice those concerns because it could put new readers off if its the first thing they hear. Not to get hostile but thats what I got from interpreting what you've said
    Retailers and fans voicing their opinions is fine. Retailers dissing DC to their customers is another because it can prevent potential sales.

  7. #112
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    They're definitely allowed to complain. They can't be forcibly stopped from speaking negatively. He's just asking they don't. They can ignore that request if they want.
    You can request respectfully that they do, or you can do it like that, be condescending and ask they be "BETTER" than the Fans.
    Pull List:
    DC: Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood: Outlaw, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Young Justice, Legion of Superheroes, John Constantine: Hellblazer, Batman Beyond, Dark Nights: Death Metal
    MARVEL: Fantastic Four, Daredevil, The Immortal Hulk, Venom, Web of Venom, Dawn of X
    BOOM STUDIOS: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willow, Angel and Spike
    DARK HORSE: Bill and Ted are doomed.
    IMAGE: The Walking Dead: Deluxe

  8. #113
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I guess I just didn't read that as overly offensive in the first place. Asking a retailer to be better than the average fan in regards to complaining...I mean, I'm a fan and I don't have a problem with that statement. I DO complain. We all complain. In a way that wouldn't behoove things if our status as a fan changed and we found ourselves with a job that constituted a more direct line to the sale of the product. The wording doesn't seem overly malicious to me. To each their own.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  9. #114
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    From my point of view, DiDio asked retailers to not voice their complains to the fan but to address them to DC only. Which seems to me to be really standard procedure in company business, and even administrations. It's not unrealistic from a company to expect if not loyalty, at least not active sabotage from companies working with him lower down the chain of production and distribution.
    Except as Bleeding Cool reported it, the second clause wasn't there. Because I agree that the best way for DC to curtail complaining to readers from the retailers is to listen to the complaints from the retailers and take them seriously. If they do that, they don't need to ask retailers to not share complaints with their customers, because the retailers already have a safety valve.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  10. #115
    VEGETATIVE INJUSTICE! Kurisu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denirac View Post
    You can request respectfully that they do, or you can do it like that, be condescending and ask they be "BETTER" than the Fans.
    Oh please. Your misguided ill-will towards Didio would color your opinion no matter how he phrased it.

    Retailers do need to behave better than fans. If I ever walked into a shop and saw its owner and employees conduct themselves the way people on this board do, I would walk out and never return step foot near the premises. And you can bet some kid fresh out of a Captain Marvel screening looking to lean into the medium would feel the same.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurisu View Post
    Oh please. Your misguided ill-will towards Didio would color your opinion no matter how he phrased it.

    Retailers do need to behave better than fans. If I ever walked into a shop and saw its owner and employees conduct themselves the way people on this board do, I would walk out and never return step foot near the premises. And you can bet some kid fresh out of a Captain Marvel screening looking to lean into the medium would feel the same.
    I would much rather care for the insights of someone with an ear in the industry than stay silent and ignorant...eventually, the comics you read dry up, and you'll want to know why that is.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 02-21-2019 at 11:42 AM.

  12. #117
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    I don't think it's all that controversial to suggest your business partners tell you about problems you have with content, sales, or distribution methods instead of just complaining to your customers or Bleeding Cool. Like what good does it do a store or DC to have a retailer telling a customer that Nightwing is terrible right now or Heroes in Crisis is a dark mess, or Marvel is just all useless variant covers? Kills potential sales for everyone. Yeah, Nightwing may be a mess, but that reader might like it anyways (we all probably have some favorite that isn't or wasn't popular) and end up buying something else.

    He's not saying fans are garbage because their are complaints or retailers opinions don't matter. I think he wants real feedback from them and for them not to poison the well regardless.

  13. #118
    Helping the Helpless Denirac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurisu View Post
    Oh please. Your misguided ill-will towards Didio would color your opinion no matter how he phrased it.

    Retailers do need to behave better than fans. If I ever walked into a shop and saw its owner and employees conduct themselves the way people on this board do, I would walk out and never return step foot near the premises. And you can bet some kid fresh out of a Captain Marvel screening looking to lean into the medium would feel the same.
    Actually, No, I've agreed with DiDio on some things in the past and I think he can be good as a Public Speaker but this seemed like an intentional swipe at the fans similarly to how he used to intentionally swipe at Wally fans at conventions in mean spirited ways.

    As for Retailers and Employees, at my LCS we discuss things like that all the time, They voice things they havent liked, I voice things I havent liked- Like Ric Grayson and Heroes in Crisis, they'll recommend good books and suggest ones to stay away from, I'd say thats a fair thing to do.
    Last edited by Denirac; 02-21-2019 at 11:57 AM.
    Pull List:
    DC: Batman, Nightwing, Red Hood: Outlaw, Detective Comics, Superman, Action Comics, Young Justice, Legion of Superheroes, John Constantine: Hellblazer, Batman Beyond, Dark Nights: Death Metal
    MARVEL: Fantastic Four, Daredevil, The Immortal Hulk, Venom, Web of Venom, Dawn of X
    BOOM STUDIOS: Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Willow, Angel and Spike
    DARK HORSE: Bill and Ted are doomed.
    IMAGE: The Walking Dead: Deluxe

  14. #119
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Problem may be also related to whether all those "complaints" are from people who may understand the situations they're complaining about (it's easy to complain about how much a company charges for a comic book, but how many of those complaints are from people who understand all the costs that are part of producing the final product?) and whether "anonymous" complaints that flow across the internet sites would also be quite as severe in real-life, face-to-face discussions with the people from the comic book companies?

    Let's face it, the internet has unfortunately lowered the standards for discussing topics in general, either through anonymity or through all the false information floating around that seemingly becomes "legit" when enough people seem to repeat it.

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member Nick Miller's Avatar
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    Ok how bout just do your top 50 characters and cut it off there?

    Same goes with marvel . They both just flood the market with marginal books.

    And retailers keep ordering them Marvel just collected Angel Punisher, one of the most maligned books in its history, Why???

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