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  1. #1
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Default The Original Gwen Stacy Appreciation 2019

    This is the place to go to share your appreciation for the true love of Peter Parker who did not deserve the fate she received in 1973.

    Gwen was a strong, intelligent, and independent character who cared for the man under the mask rather than the mask itself. I hope Marvel eventually gets the common sense to bring her back to the land of the living in the Marvel Universe.

    As we know, nothing is impossible when it comes to comics. Nobody ever thought they would ever see Bucky alive in comics again. Who do you think could handle bringing her back and how do you think it could happen?

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    NOTE: This is not a Spider-Gwen thread. Here, we’ll focus our on the original 616 Gwen and her several adaptions that do not include spider powers.

    Gwen Stacy was created by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. She first appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man #31 in December of 1965.
    Last edited by KurtW95; 02-18-2019 at 01:24 AM.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Zeitgeist's Avatar
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    El Sorprendenta Hombre Arana Gwen got that booty thooo

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    ♪ღ♪*•.¸¸¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪•*

    ♪ღ♪░M░E░P░H░I░S░T░O░ W░A░S░ R░I░G░H░T░♪ღ♪

    *•♪ღ♪*•.¸¸¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪¸.•*¨ ¨*•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ♪•«

  3. #3
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    We must declare a national emergency to keep thiccums Mexican Gwen from taking over the American comics market.
    heroine addict we love you come back

  4. #4
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    Won't get into the "true love" thing, I'll just say that'll always be MJ and leave it at that.

    They've had opportunity after opportunity to bring Gwen back, the most recent being Clone Conspiracy, and it never works. Gwen's death is as much a building block of Spider-Man's core mythology as losing Uncle Ben. Her death reminds Peter that he cannot save everyone. I'd much prefer they never cheapen that lesson.

    The only recourse is to do a fresh separate continuity where Peter and Gwen are married, base it off the timeline off that one classic "What If", that seemed to deal with Gwen a bit better and, while rushed, it delved briefly into Gwen coming to terms with who Peter is. The story ends on a sad note with Peter on the run fresh off of marrying her, but Gwen is depicted in it as someone who will fight to clear Peter as best she can.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 02-18-2019 at 10:10 AM.

  5. #5

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    I wish the real Gwen was back. no kids, no clone, no powers, just the real Gwen. Ah well..

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Gwen was a strong, intelligent, and independent character who cared for the man under the mask rather than the mask itself.
    Astonishing, every word in this sentence is wrong.

    1) Gwen wasn't strong. She was a damsel in distress on a few occassions before being fridged. She also cried all the time. And her reaction to Peter telling her he's Spider-Man is to collapse into a hysterical fit.

    2) Gwen wasn't intelligent. Her reaction to her father's death in ASM #91-92 was to join a white nationalist organization led by a blatant racist who hated her father and is obviously using her. If Gwen was intelligent, then she volunteered willingly to serve a white nationalist and racist with ties to hate groups. Which means if Gwen was smart she was a racist. If she's not a racist, then she is not smart and is indeed quite naive, stupid, and easily manipulated. Gwen was also someone who had no scientific chops contrary to belief. She is shown attending a few classes but she got into college because of family influence. She also posed as a bikini model in the Savage Land issues and she was shown far more often as a trophy girlfriend than "intellectual equal" (something invented out of whole cloth in the Emma Stone movie and not inherent to any pre-existing version of her. Nobody saw Gwen as a science geek until that movie).

    3) Gwen wasn't independent. Her entire existence as a character revolved around the men in her life, her Dad and her Boyfriend who she was basically grooming and moulding into becoming just like her dad in obvious Freudian substitution.

    4) Gwen didn't care for the man under the mask, because she didn't know Peter at all. The "Peter" she knew was the one that Peter presented to her. Her boyfriend lied to her multiple times, was not even remotely honest to her, gaslighted her in ASM #87 and she died without ever knowing the "real" Peter. And she was also a nasty bully to Aunt May, Peter's mother, and spent most of her time trying to make Peter more like George Stacy and less like him. So in no way did she like the real Peter. She never knew the real one, and to the extent she did, she didn't like him much.

    As we know, nothing is impossible when it comes to comics. Nobody ever thought they would ever see Bucky alive in comics again. Who do you think could handle bringing her back and how do you think it could happen?
    The question is which version of Gwen do people really want. Do they want the character that Lee-Romita wrote before her death, do they want the Gwen in the posthumous retrospective stories, do they want the Gwen that Emma Stone plays. Because aside from name, none of these versions have anything in common.

    The Gwen Stacy that Lee-Romita wrote was a dippy, contradictory hot mess of a character. Interesting but not in the way her creators intended. She was a snob, a bully, possibly a racist, but presented as a good person in the narrative when all the bad stuff she did was never called out once. IF you want to bring her back, you can do so as a villain.

    Gwen Stacy was created by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. She first appeared in The Amazing Spider-Man #31 in December of 1965.
    The Lee-Ditko Gwen was a sneering snob who joined with Flash and Harry Osborn, and later Sally Green, in hazing Peter. She wasn't the character in the Lee-Romita era.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I wish the real Gwen was back. no kids, no clone, no powers, just the real Gwen. Ah well..
    The Ditko/Lee ice queen who had a ride with everyone?

  8. #8
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I wish the real Gwen was back. no kids, no clone, no powers, just the real Gwen. Ah well..
    Agreed!

    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Astonishing, every word in this sentence is wrong.
    Wew. There’s quite a lot there. Let me start in saying this is a Gwen Stacy APPRECIATION thread. If you want to hate on the character, create your own thread for that purpose or head to the MJ thread that likely exists. Next, what are you trying to say? The overwhelming critique of Gwen is that she was too perfect. You seem to be saying she was all flawed. I don’t think either is true. Also, you’re grossly mischaracterizing that story arc. Her father dyed and she was duped by a manipulative politician who happened to be racist behind closed doors with radical associations. You’re making it out like she was marching in Charlottesville or something. Good grief.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  9. #9
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    I wish the real Gwen was back. no kids, no clone, no powers, just the real Gwen. Ah well..
    I'd be down with this, except maybe the last part due to personal preference. I'll always say the soft reboot caused by OMD (or the BND Era) was the best time to have reintroduced OG Gwen, talk about a squandered opportunity.

    Edit - Wow, I'm noticing some vocal character hate in this thread already, damn that didn't take long. Sometimes I think people misunderstand the purpose of these type of threads they are APPRECIATION THREADS NOT DETRACTION OR DEBATE THREADS.
    Last edited by Celgress; 02-18-2019 at 12:39 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Let me start in saying this is a Gwen Stacy APPRECIATION thread.
    You need to appreciate the character that exists, warts and all, and not the idealized one. If you are going to say stuff like Gwen is Peter's "true love" (whatever that means) and start listing stuff about her being independent or intelligent, without qualifying your statement, then there needs must be words.

    The overwhelming critique of Gwen is that she was too perfect.
    That wasn't the only critique. She was also whiny, cried all the time, an annoying Daddy's girl and inconsistent. Any time she did something that indicated enormous character flaws the narration and everything bent over backwards to make her look good or still present her as a good person no matter how much it contradicted her actions. Basically everything that was true of Carlie Cooper was true of Gwen Stacy. And if Carlie Cooper isn't getting a pass, neither should Gwen.

    Gwen's Stacy death made her the holy version...this ideal woman for Peter...People who say that weren't around for the whole run. They've forgotten how nasty she was. She wasn't the most stable. She'd be all lovey-dovey one moment, and then hands-off the next. She was very strange. Just prior to her death, there was a long period when they were on the outs.

    — Roger Stern Spider-Man Crawlspace Episode 37: Roger Stern Interview Pt. 2', Timestamp: 52:00 — 55:00

    Also, you’re grossly mischaracterizing that story arc. Her father dyed and she was duped by a manipulative politician who happened to be racist behind closed doors with radical associations. You’re making it out like she was marching in Charlottesville or something. Good grief.
    It wasn't closed doors. Sam Bullitt was a right wing authoritarian DA from the get-go. Peter and Robbie Robertson compared him to Hitler multiple times before his connection to hate groups was revealed. Gwen volunteered to his campaign for more or less his promise to kill Spider-Man or hunt him without due process.

    And none of that was ever explained nor was she called out for that. If Gwen was ignorant, she's not very smart or bright. If she wasn't ignorant, she's a racist. In either case, she was willing out of revenge, to support someone her father opposed in the hope of killing Spider-Man i.e. what Harry Osborn does in the Spider-Man movies.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I'd be down with this, except maybe the last part due to personal preference. I'll always say the soft reboot caused by OMD (or the BND Era) was the best time to have reintroduced OG Gwen, talk about a squandered opportunity.
    What would bringing Gwen back have accomplished other than take away/regress Peter's growth in learning from, and moving past, her death? Having Gwen back would not have meant Peter would suddenly marry her instead of MJ, the whole point of OMD was to make Peter consistently single and free for any kind of romantic entanglement. Gwen would have been just another girlfriend, and likely would have went the way of Carlie Cooper depending on the writer's interest.

    Just as Peter lacks maturity and a meaningful direction without the marriage to MJ in BND, it'd be far worse with Gwen because she would have to be the older character due to having had the twins. She would have life experience that Peter had been denied by editorial...how would Peter be able to relate to her by that point? Wishing the twins weren't a part of her history is all you can do to dress down that aspect, but that is intellectually dishonest. Sins Past happened. Short of a timeline rewrite on par with 05 X-Men levels, it's still in play and it would always inform and affect Gwen's character going forward. She is a mother, she ages Peter. That directly contradicts Marvel's desires for the character.

    Edit - Wow, I'm noticing some vocal character hate in this thread already, damn that didn't take long. Sometimes I think people misunderstand the purpose of these type of threads they are APPRECIATION THREADS NOT DETRACTION OR DEBATE THREADS.
    I think you can still appreciate a character for what they do wrong as much as they do right. It's an honest assesment of who they are and what the writers did to forge them into who they are remembered as today. The thread shouldn't have opened with half-truths about Gwen and the hyperbolic proclamation she is "Peter's true love" when canonically, that is categorically not the case.

    First Love? Not even that, that was Betty.

    True Love? Absolutely not, that's MJ.

    The most tragic of his loves? Definitely.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 02-18-2019 at 12:58 PM.

  12. #12
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    If you want to crap on Gwen or say MJ’s better, you have a whole thread for that. I don’t go there and spam my opinions of Gwen being better.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  13. #13
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    If you want to crap on Gwen or say MJ’s better, you have a whole thread for that. I don’t go there and spam my opinions of Gwen being better.
    Thank you very much. Some people here do not seem to understand what a character appreciation thread is for, which both aggravates and disappoints me.
    Last edited by Celgress; 02-18-2019 at 08:09 PM.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  14. #14
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles To Go View Post
    What would bringing Gwen back have accomplished other than take away/regress Peter's growth in learning from, and moving past, her death? Having Gwen back would not have meant Peter would suddenly marry her instead of MJ, the whole point of OMD was to make Peter consistently single and free for any kind of romantic entanglement. Gwen would have been just another girlfriend, and likely would have went the way of Carlie Cooper depending on the writer's interest....
    They regressed his character anyway (which was the whole purpose of OMD) at least if Gwen was brought back to life Spider-Man would have not taken a total loss against Mephisto.
    "I'm sorry, but your story isn't adding up. I think your religion is a lie to keep my mouth shut."

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    Thank you very much. Some people here do not seem to understand what a character appreciation thread is for, which bother aggravates and disappoints me.
    Over in the X-Men forums, there are appreciation threads for Jean Grey, Scott Summers, and one for their overall relationship together. All three of those threads have healthy back-and-forths about what the characters have done both positively and negatively. They are not content with being just a pro-merit echo chamber.

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    If you want to crap on Gwen or say MJ’s better, you have a whole thread for that. I don’t go there and spam my opinions of Gwen being better.
    I can't speak for Jack, but I'm not trying to crap on Gwen, I'm trying to convey how she's more important to the Spider-Man story as a memory and a reminder that imprints itself on Peter's conscience and makes him more of a man she could be proud of.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 02-18-2019 at 03:20 PM.

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