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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Revolutionary_Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VolcanikTiger86 View Post
    Well when you think that Sue Storm only ability was to turn invisible and had people in universe question her worth what can you say, it wasn’t until John Bryne that her powers were expanded and she began to develop into the Sue we know today is it surprising how he treated Gwen who was an actually civilian.
    It's true that Stan Lee didn't write women well, and that's the primary reason why Gwen came to be seen as disposable. You know there were a lot of attempts to write Sue out of the FF. Like people tried to make the girl on the four at various times -- Crystal, Medusa, and so on. If you are saying that Gwen Stacy could have been rounded had she lived longer, I agree with you. I think ideally Conway should have broken Peter and Gwen up, and have her leave the books for a while, and then come back when another writer wanted to revive and pick up threads. That would have worked well for Gwen.

    But at the end of the day, the story that we have is what we have. Gwen is defined by the stories that were written about her when she was alive. That's the true Gwen.

    A pro marriage fan putting down Gwen must be a Monday.
    Roger Stern is not in fact a pro-marriage fan. He was famously and vocally critical of Peter's marriage to MJ. But that doesn't mean he is a fan of Gwen Stacy or Felicia Hardy either as Peter's love interest. Fact is that not everyone who had issues, or have issues with Gwen's character when she was alive are okay with shipping Peter and MJ and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by VolcanikTiger86 View Post
    Was she aware of all the bad press or was she blinded by revenge because then again that says a lot, doesn’t help that her dad wouldn’t be happy with her though.
    Read the story, ASM #91-92 and decide for yourself.

    Any case, I think people are right and that I might have overstepped in posting so much. It's just that when people say Original Gwen Stacy, I kind of assume it's the issues with the character written until ASM #122 and not the Gwen Stacy across Spider-Man media.

  2. #32
    Fantastic Member Von's Avatar
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    I was a big fan of Gwen back in the day. But I had a kiddy crush on her, so I was biased at the time.

    To me she was beautiful and sexy, and feminine, and a more conservative 'good girl Betty' to MJ's 'party girl Veronica' persona.

    When she died and Pete failed to save her, it was a huge shock and a loss for me.

    In retrospect - and after reading back through that whole era a few years back, as an adult - I also see much of the truth about her character that's been covered in this thread. So much of what I had been attached to in the character - honestly - turned out to be a projection and idealization of who I wanted her to be. Not who she actually was as written and depicted on the page.

    I wasn't a huge fan of Slott's last Clone Saga with Ben as the Jackal. It was fairly entertaining. If a bit muddy and loose with plot and character overall.

    But I did enjoy the way he wrote the OG Gwen into the narrative, I liked her role, I liked the way he handled her dialogue and actions ...

    ... and I especially liked a few of the private conversations she had with Pete: about her identity and addressing some of the issues they had in their relationship before she died.

    I can't recall all the specifics of what was said at the moment. I just recall feeling like Slott captured the best parts of the girl that I remember, the way I remembered her, and he left behind a lot of the more questionable stuff that bolloxed up my memories of her.

    Got the feels with those scenes...

    I wanted Clone Gwen to live at that point. I wanted them to keep that going and expand on it. But alas, as far as I know it didn't happen. And her clone body dissolved along with the rest of them

    (....or did it?)

  3. #33
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    It would be fun if clone Gwen DID survive. She's obviously not going to be on friendly terms with Ghost-Spider, because of what she did to her in Clone Conspiracy.

  4. #34
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    I was a big fan of Gwen back in the day. But I had a kiddy crush on her, so I was biased at the time.

    To me she was beautiful and sexy, and feminine, and a more conservative 'good girl Betty' to MJ's 'party girl Veronica' persona.

    When she died and Pete failed to save her, it was a huge shock and a loss for me.

    In retrospect - and after reading back through that whole era a few years back, as an adult - I also see much of the truth about her character that's been covered in this thread. So much of what I had been attached to in the character - honestly - turned out to be a projection and idealization of who I wanted her to be. Not who she actually was as written and depicted on the page.

    I wasn't a huge fan of Slott's last Clone Saga with Ben as the Jackal. It was fairly entertaining. If a bit muddy and loose with plot and character overall.

    But I did enjoy the way he wrote the OG Gwen into the narrative, I liked her role, I liked the way he handled her dialogue and actions ...

    ... and I especially liked a few of the private conversations she had with Pete: about her identity and addressing some of the issues they had in their relationship before she died.

    I can't recall all the specifics of what was said at the moment. I just recall feeling like Slott captured the best parts of the girl that I remember, the way I remembered her, and he left behind a lot of the more questionable stuff that bolloxed up my memories of her.

    Got the feels with those scenes...

    I wanted Clone Gwen to live at that point. I wanted them to keep that going and expand on it. But alas, as far as I know it didn't happen. And her clone body dissolved along with the rest of them

    (....or did it?)
    I disliked so much about Slott’s Spider-Man, the arcs, his tenture on the book, so I didn’t read most of it, but when I saw the covers for the Clone Conspiracy I knew that I had to get the issues.

    Everything you wrote I agree with! When I say that I dislike Slott’s writing, I mean I’m, being honest, predisposed to dislike whatever he writes, but I appreciate the emotions he built between clone Gwen and Peter.

    I can't recall all the specifics of what was said at the moment. I just recall feeling like Slott captured the best parts of the girl that I remember, the way I remembered her...Got the feels with those scenes...
    Saaaame!
    Admiral of a fleet of ships—relationships!
    Comicbooks are nothing to me without ships and romance!

  5. #35
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    Arrow Re:

    For those interested. Chapter Seventeen of my What If Gwen Stacy Never Died? story is posted. The old Parker luck returns with tragic results -

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1276833...wined-Destines

    If so inclined, enjoy.
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

  6. #36

  7. #37
    Ultimate Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Which makes me wonder if she's somehow alive in the present day? Be it the clone still existing, her being Kindred, or Miles Warren (who Gwen-65 is currently dealing with) managing to resurrect her.

  8. #38
    Amazing Member spidergwen's Avatar
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    Late to the party. Re: Gwen's upcoming Mini Series.

    I was LITERALLY just chewing a friend of mine's ear off less than 2 months ago about wanting Gwen to get a mini series. The main questions I have regarding Gwen Stacy of Earth-616 is

    1) Was she always a serial dater, or was Peter her first real love?

    2) How did she feel about superheroes in general? She seems to prefer more realistic heroes, war heroes, sport heroes, officers, politicians, etc. Every single time Spider-Man or even other heroes were around, she was mostly "Where's Peter?" And also back to Spidey, how'd she feel about him?? Eventually, he's nothing but a dick to her, so I can't fault her at all for not liking him.

    3) Her upbringing and her mother. Is her family originally from England?

    4) What she was like in school. We only see glimpses, but most of the time we have seen her in E.S.U she was making eyes at Peter.

    and half-related, I'd like to see what her and MJ's "friendship" was like before Gwen started dating Peter. One issue, Gwen comments that Mary Jane's "more serious" than people expect hinting at knowing MJ more than the audience does already. (ASM 55)
    "Sins Past" was deliberate character assassination (the writers admitted to pulling it out of thin air) and the OG Gwen was nothing but fiercely loyal to Peter Parker and it got her killed.

  9. #39
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spidergwen View Post
    Late to the party. Re: Gwen's upcoming Mini Series.

    I was LITERALLY just chewing a friend of mine's ear off less than 2 months ago about wanting Gwen to get a mini series. The main questions I have regarding Gwen Stacy of Earth-616 is

    1) Was she always a serial dater, or was Peter her first real love?
    Ditko-Gwen made it blatantly clear that she strings men around, but I wouldn't say that made her a serial dater.

    2) How did she feel about superheroes in general? She seems to prefer more realistic heroes, war heroes, sport heroes, officers, politicians, etc. Every single time Spider-Man or even other heroes were around, she was mostly "Where's Peter?" And also back to Spidey, how'd she feel about him?? Eventually, he's nothing but a dick to her, so I can't fault her at all for not liking him.
    She liked him at first:



    This is from ASM#53.

    It's probably the only time she praised Spidey too, since like you said, she mostly keeps worrying about Peter, doesn't mention the fight that's going on.

    Not sure if she ever talked about other heroes too, at best, probably Ice-Man in the Bullit two-parter (ASM#91 and 92), which she probably praised him for fighting Spidey, but if that's the case, it's probably less of "She likes super-heroes" and more of "She wants someone to take down Spider-Man".

    and half-related, I'd like to see what her and MJ's "friendship" was like before Gwen started dating Peter. One issue, Gwen comments that Mary Jane's "more serious" than people expect hinting at knowing MJ more than the audience does already. (ASM 55)
    The context of that line is that MJ told Gwen to leave, which Peter thought she was joking, and then Gwen replied with her being serious more often than MJ would like Peter to know, it sounds like MJ was jealous, which Gwen noticed, and was hinting that MJ really does want her to leave, and hinting that similar moments are also serious.

    Of course, with retcons and MJ's tragic past becoming a thing, it's easy to see this line as Gwen knowing more about MJ's past than you'd expect, but the original intent was not that, and just another "love triangle" moment.

  10. #40
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Which makes me wonder if she's somehow alive in the present day? Be it the clone still existing, her being Kindred, or Miles Warren (who Gwen-65 is currently dealing with) managing to resurrect her.
    We also never saw her actually die again in Clone Conspiracy. Rather we just saw her clothes with dust so it is conceivable that she escaped after lasting until the stabilizer was broadcast to everybody brought back.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  11. #41
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    Gwen is definitely a character most adaptations try to avoid due to everyone knowing her fate. In fact most adaptations add traits to the character that may not have been there while she was alive. Now we all know this is mainly because storytelling was altered after Gwen's death. The main things that can be remembered about Gwen was her devotion to Peter and her father, as well as how she was an example of a "defrosting ice queen". In the few times we have seen Gwen outside of comics (where she doesn't don a spider suit), does anyone think that things added to her character would have made sense for the character we saw in comics?

  12. #42
    Incredible Member Jman27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Gwen is definitely a character most adaptations try to avoid due to everyone knowing her fate. In fact most adaptations add traits to the character that may not have been there while she was alive. Now we all know this is mainly because storytelling was altered after Gwen's death. The main things that can be remembered about Gwen was her devotion to Peter and her father, as well as how she was an example of a "defrosting ice queen". In the few times we have seen Gwen outside of comics (where she doesn't don a spider suit), does anyone think that things added to her character would have made sense for the character we saw in comics?
    I believe so they probably add stuff to her character that way she can be known more than the girl who die I just don't know how successful that it has been cause for me my opinion hasn't change about og Gwen
    "He's pure power and doesn't even know it. He's the best of us."-Matt Murdock

  13. #43
    Incredible Member AngelJD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistah K88 View Post
    Gwen is definitely a character most adaptations try to avoid due to everyone knowing her fate. In fact most adaptations add traits to the character that may not have been there while she was alive. Now we all know this is mainly because storytelling was altered after Gwen's death. The main things that can be remembered about Gwen was her devotion to Peter and her father, as well as how she was an example of a "defrosting ice queen". In the few times we have seen Gwen outside of comics (where she doesn't don a spider suit), does anyone think that things added to her character would have made sense for the character we saw in comics?
    I personally like seeing different versions in the Multiverse of Gwen Stacy and not knowing exactly how she might be like. In the Multiverse different choices and outcomes can happen including lifestyles and mindsets, powers, and so much more. Copy and paste 616 versions all the time is tiring to what a Multiverse can bring. Gwen has the highest variety of the token characters and sometimes I adore who is presented to me or I feel that version works in that world and sometimes I'm not a fan per each new Gwen possibly presented.

    That 'fate' however I never understood in the multiverse why it was seen as mandatory to some. In the Multiverse anything should be possible including fates. Being stuck because you think the ways characters must act or fated is lacking to imagination. It's like since one version of MJ died by spider cancer all MJ's must follow that same path now. 616 supposably is just one Multiverse in a grand unlimited Multiverse.

    Gwen of 616 and the Gwen of 1610 are in some form spiritually connect and might have similarities in some aspects but differences in other making each one a unique person presented. That is what a power of a Multiverse is able to bring us for all characters.

  14. #44
    Mighty Member Electricmastro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Wew. There’s quite a lot there. Let me start in saying this is a Gwen Stacy APPRECIATION thread.
    Yep, RJ seems to have quite a bit of baggage regarding Gwen that would probably be best be sorted out somewhere other than an appreciation thread of all places. lol

  15. #45
    Mighty Member Lukmendes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
    El Sorprendenta Hombre Arana Gwen got that booty thooo

    Attachment 78655
    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    We must declare a national emergency to keep thiccums Mexican Gwen from taking over the American comics market.
    Since Mexican Gwen was mentioned, Imma post this:


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