Who Should Write the Flash After Joshua Williamson?

[Buried Alien]

I think you're misunderstanding me and being overly defensive. I like Wally and Barry and Jay (and Bart & Jesse). I like The Flash. Period. That said, it's a simple fact that Barry didn't have much a sense of humor prior to his recent resurrection, whereas, during Wally's tenure as Flash, his sense of humor had become fairly prominent and was a popular element of the character. As a result, Barry became much funnier when he resumed being the primary Flash. It was not the exact same sense of humor, no, but the very idea of The Flash being a funny character making quips all the time originated during Wally's tenure. That's a Flash Fact.

With Silver/Bronze Age Barry, he was seldom a guy who overtly tried to be funny. During the Silver Age, though, the FLASH book often was funny anyway not because Barry himself was a cutup (he wasn't), but the stuff that happened around him was often funny as hell, and watching him react to it was the source of much of the humor.

One of the funniest Barry moments came early in the Silver Age when he tripped over one of Mirror Master's mirrors in his own apartment, knocked himself out, and missed another date with Iris.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Dred]

I'm sorry, but this is blatantly not true. Barry was frequently quippy with his villains in his early Flash stories. He was only portrayed as not having much of a sense of humour after his death in Waid's awful take on the character that made him a boring saint.

What? This is certainly not the case.

With Silver/Bronze Age Barry, he was seldom a guy who overtly tried to be funny. During the Silver Age, though, the FLASH book often was funny anyway not because Barry himself was a cutup (he wasn't), but the stuff that happened around him was often funny as hell, and watching him react to it was the source of much of the humor.

One of the funniest Barry moments came early in the Silver Age when he tripped over one of Mirror Master's mirrors in his own apartment, knocked himself out, and missed another date with Iris.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

This is exactly what I'm saying. Barry did not crack jokes outside of the usual puns. Heck he was frequently teamed up with Hal, who was the class clown of the JL at the time. It'd be weird for Barry to be the funny guy for his own generation because someone else is already that.

[FlashEarthOne]

Like seriously, do you think in the current universe Wally is the one who discovered the depths of the Speed Force, learned from Max Mercury about what the Speed Force was, and named it the Speed Force? Because he isn't, because all of that has been grafted onto Barry. Imagine if 1987 hit and Wally pretended like everything Barry ever did didn't happen and started doing the same things Barry did. Imagine if they treated it like the Rogues and Barry had never interacted before and Wally was the Rogues' first true enemy. This is what has happened with the Speed Force. Half of Wally's entire history and run were stripped from him and are no longer part of him, because they are now part of Barry. This is what we mean when we talk about this stuff.

Based on the events of Flash War I don't think this is true.

[KC]

What? This is certainly not the case.

It certainly is. Barry made snide remarks to a lot of his enemies in his early comics.

[Frontier]

The same people say the CW's Flash is being written like Wally. Then they say that Miller's Flash is like Wally. Same for the animated movies and shows. Well... they're all different. It doesn't take Nostradamus to predict that basically ANY Barry/Flash incarnation will have the claim, "They're writing him like Wally!"

Miller's Flash was a weird approximation of Barry, Wally, and Bart.

On-top of the fact that he came off more like Kid Flash then an actual, full-fledged, Flash.

I wouldn't call it a similar situation though because Jason Todd never showed back up to kick Tim Drake out of the Robin position to be the "real" Robin. They just progressed to a fourth Robin.

Dick kind of kicked Tim out so Damian could be the fourth Robin.

The Flash TV series has him ripping off Wally in a bunch of different ways besides humor. The humor in that is very flat and rarely delivered from Barry, anyhow, but certainly the character arc and the Speed Force stuff is. Heck, Season 1 was like a backdoor Return of Barry Allen adaptation. I will admit I stopped watching after season 2 so maybe things have changed that I am not aware of.

I think Gustin's Barry becomes more Barry like each subsequent season.

First of all I have to say I appreciate this discussion with you. Props for being able to go back and forth without degrading into something petty.

That being said I disagree about the animated feature movies. I don't think Flashpoint, the one with the Legion of Doom, or the Reign and Death executed in Wally's style... they may have been quippy but not snarky or overly brash. It definitely isn't the tone of JL/JLU Wally. You can even hear it in the actor's voice.

Yeah, I don't really get people claiming the Flash in the animated movies is more like Wally.

Christopher Gorham's performance, his characterization, and style of humor has always felt more like Barry to me.

[Buried Alien]

This is exactly what I'm saying. Barry did not crack jokes outside of the usual puns. Heck he was frequently teamed up with Hal, who was the class clown of the JL at the time. It'd be weird for Barry to be the funny guy for his own generation because someone else is already that.

Barry let Hal and Ralph carry the load for cracking funnies, but you couldn't ask for a better straight man than Barry Allen.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Dred]

It certainly is. Barry made snide remarks to a lot of his enemies in his early comics.

Snide remarks aren't quips. Making light of a situation, joking, and being snarky are different from demeaning villains. The latter Barry certainly did a lot, but that is not what anyone here is talking about when they talk about what Barry does nowadays. I'm pretty sure Buried Alien has read the entire SA catalog and, despite our differences, even we're on the same page here.

Based on the events of Flash War I don't think this is true.

I do. It's certainly true because his kids don't exist, Linda doesn't remember him, and his entire life is a lie that never happened because of Flashpoint. Everything he ever did or accomplished was merged into Barry's life.

Just wait for Barry to drop the word "Speed Force" in Flash Year One.

[FlashEarthOne]

I think you're misunderstanding me and being overly defensive. I like Wally and Barry and Jay (and Bart & Jesse). I like The Flash. Period. That said, it's a simple fact that Barry didn't have much a sense of humor prior to his recent resurrection, whereas, during Wally's tenure as Flash, his sense of humor had become fairly prominent and was a popular element of the character. As a result, Barry became much funnier when he resumed being the primary Flash. It was not the exact same sense of humor, no, but the very idea of The Flash being a funny character making quips all the time originated during Wally's tenure. That's a Flash Fact.

Maybe I misunderstood you but I'm definitely not the one being overly defensive/sensitive. You aren't either but there is definitely a group of posters who are and prove it with regularity.

[FlashEarthOne]

Miller's Flash was a weird approximation of Barry, Wally, and Bart.

True... I thought mostly he was Barry/Bart. Very little Wally IMO.

I think Gustin's Barry becomes more Barry like each subsequent season.

For the most part I agreed. On that show you really see where the "he is written just Wally" crowd loses credibility. Hell I even predicted before the pilot that if/when the show was successful that certain posters would claim it was because he was being written just like Wally. I'm not clairvoyant...that crowd is just extremely one note and predictable.

I've always said that if the Wally Zealots were even 1/4 as numerous as they claim to be then the sales numbers would reflect it and Barry's book would tank. Since you know that SO many of them were done with DC because of what they were doing to Wally. Except the book is FAR from tanking. Vocal minority anyone?

Yeah, I don't really get people claiming the Flash in the animated movies is more like Wally.

Christopher Gorham's performance, his characterization, and style of humor has always felt more like Barry to me.

Even his tone of voice... much more Barry. Whereas Rosenbaum's voice to me is Wally... or at least adult Wally... I like the YJ Wally guy too.

[KC]

Snide remarks aren't quips. Making light of a situation, joking, and being snarky are different from demeaning villains. The latter Barry certainly did a lot, but that is not what anyone here is talking about when they talk about what Barry does nowadays. I'm pretty sure Buried Alien has read the entire SA catalog and, despite our differences, even we're on the same page here.

Snide remarks can be quippy, and that is what Barry did. To say that Barry had little or no sense of Humour is false.

[Frontier]

For the most part I agreed. On that show you really see where the "he is written just Wally" crowd loses credibility. Hell I even predicted before the pilot that if/when the show was successful that certain posters would claim it was because he was being written just like Wally. I'm not clairvoyant...that crowd is just extremely one note and predictable.

When they played up his youth, how the Speed Force makes him eat a lot, fight Zoom, and even having him date Linda Park, I can see where they were coming from, but those aren't as prevalent as they are now.

Now his only problem is that the writers keep dumbing him down to justify the plot and the existence of Team Flash.

Even his tone of voice... much more Barry. Whereas Rosenbaum's voice to me is Wally... or at least adult Wally... I like the YJ Wally guy too.

I thought Rosenbaum did a solid Barry in Justice League: Doom though .

Although I don't think it helps how interchangeable the Flash VA's are some times. Rosenbuam, Charlie Schlattler, Josh Keaton, and maybe Spisak have all played both Barry and Wally at some point in their careers.

The same thing happens with the Robins.

[FlashEarthOne]

I do. It's certainly true because his kids don't exist, Linda doesn't remember him, and his entire life is a lie that never happened because of Flashpoint. Everything he ever did or accomplished was merged into Barry's life.

Just wait for Barry to drop the word "Speed Force" in Flash Year One.

We'll see...

[FlashEarthOne]

I thought Rosenbaum did a solid Barry in Justice League: Doom though .

Although I don't think it helps how interchangeable the Flash VA's are some times. Rosenbuam, Charlie Schlattler, Josh Keaton, and maybe Spisak have all played both Barry and Wally at some point in their careers.

Great point... and you're right Rosenbaum did portray Barry well.

[Dred]

Snide remarks can be quippy, and that is what Barry did. To say that Barry had little or no sense of Humour is false.

He did have little sense of humor. He rarely made jokes, rarely used levity at all, and was the dictionary definition of straight laced and straight forward. This isn't like, us having a difference of opinion. Barry factually did not joke around very much in his time as The Flash, and the majority of the times he did were puns. I've got nothing against puns, but that's not really his MO these days.

[manwhohaseverything]

I've always said that if the Wally Zealots were even 1/4 as numerous as they claim to be then the sales numbers would reflect it and Barry's book would tank. Since you know that SO many of them were done with DC because of what they were doing to Wally. Except the book is FAR from tanking. Vocal minority anyone?

May be Wally Zealots might not exist if they would actually treat the character and stop overemphasizing Barry so much. Barry created the speed force, he is the flash not a flash, barry generates speed force... Etc. I am waiting for them to say Barry is the first flash. Barry is being pushed so hard that every other speedster feels irrelevant, except for his villains . At least, they did something good with flash war and made wally fastest. Only to be killed for a stupid book that had no point.
The flash is legacy character at this point. You can't just walk back to silverage.as far as i know, HIC isn't doing well. So, minority has some sway. They should give all speedsters enough importance. And stop with Barry did everything and others are just for show crap. If Wally is a flash he should be in the flash books. Not as a guest appearance but as part of the main cast.
Just give the character of Wally the credit where it is due. Then Zealots won't exist.