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  1. #601
    Uncanny King-Kamalu lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    Or, Damian could just cripple Tim so Tim could no longer be active as "Robin".

    Besides, shouldn't Tim have outgrown the Robin name by now?
    Personally I think so. Fans insisting on Tim being Robin feels like another one of those complaints that doesn't service the character's development and mainly just drains the fun out of the character (i.e. Ric Grayson hyperbole). That's not to say people have to see it that way but it's ok to grow up, it's ok for characters to grow.
    Last edited by lemonpeace; 05-19-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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  2. #602
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    Yeah, making Tim became Robin again is a way DC can show they "got the message" about how Tim was poorly treated without helping or developing him as a character.

    And it hurts Batman as a franchise as well, Damian has added new dimensions to the Batman mythos and is a truly great Robin. Why would anyone want to go back to Tim Drake as Robin?

  3. #603
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    Tim is still probably the best “utility Robin,” if that makes sense. He’s a more proven character as an autonomous ally than Damian, while still being a very good complementary partner to Bruce as Batman. His more somber personality and experience mean he can switch between a combination Everyman/Straight Man to someone’s zany antics or the Seen-It-All adventurer with a high tolerance for crazy stuff. He’s simply more flexible than the other Robins in that way.

    HOWEVER, there are two caveats.

    The first is that his adaptability is also somewhat easy to screw up if a writer doesn’t get his voice or personality - see Scott Lobdell’s take on the character, where he made him such a broad archetype of the Robin idea that he became a bland, characterless tool in a knockoff Disco-Nightwing suit. This can happen to other characters, and I’d argue that Damian, *if* hit by this, gets it worse because he’s so different a character from the norm, I think Tim is somewhat more susceptible to a careless writer, since editorial might not catch it as easily as they would for Damian or Jason.

    The second is that Tim *had* moved beyond the Robin role in the post-Batman RIP world, especially in the Yost and Nicieza penned Red Robin series. He had a strikingly different look because of the cowl, a matured MO and set of strengths and flaws, and an updated series cast and status quo that, regardless of issues people had with it, was working and selling pretty well. Then the New 52 happened, and the things that made the name change actually matter were stripped away; even Tim’s new costume lost some of the identity difference. The attempt to “right the ship” with the Renorth costume switch just changed the context of the problem. Time was Robin in all but name, and while written better, was still basically just occupying his Pre-Red Robin slot.

    Bendis is trying to re-inaugurate the graduation, presumably under the supposition that the after-effects of the New 52 and Rebirth necessitate making the change more pronounced and heralded a bit. Hopefully, it works.
    Last edited by godisawesome; 05-20-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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  4. #604
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Tim is still probably the best “utility Robin,” if that makes sense. He’s a more proven character as an autonomous ally than Damian, while still being a very good complementary partner to Bruce as Batman. His more somber personality and experience mean he can switch between a combination Everyman/Straight Man to someone’s zany antics or the Seen-It-All adventurer with a high tolerance for crazy stuff. He’s simply more flexible than the other Robins in that way.

    HOWEVERE, there are two caveats.

    The first is that his adaptability is also somewhat easy to screw up if a writer doesn’t get his voice or personality - see Scott Lobdell’s take on the character, where he made him such a broad archetype of the Robin idea that he became a bland, characterless tool in a knockoff Disco-Nightwing suit. This can happen to other characters, and I’d argue that Damian, *if* hit by this, gets it worse because he’s so different a character from the norm, I think Tim is somewhat more susceptible to a careless writer, since editorial might not catch it as easily as they would for Damian or Jason.

    The second is that Tim *had* moved beyond the Robin role in the post-Batman RIP world, especially in the Yost and Nicieza penned Red Robin series. He had a strikingly different look because of the cowl, a matured MO and set of strengths and flaws, and an updated series cast and status quo that, regardless of issues people had with it, was working and selling pretty well. Then the New 52 happened, and the things that made the name change actually matter were stripped away; even Tim’s new costume lost some of the identity difference. The attempt to “right the ship” with the Renorth costume switch just changed the context of the problem. Time was Robin in all but name, and while written better, was still basically just occupying his Pre-Red Robin slot.

    Bendis is trying to re-inaugurate the graduation, presumably under the supposition that the after-effects of the New 52 and Reborth necessitate making the change more pronounced and heralded a bit. Hopefully, it works.

    Remembering his past should be a huge boost for the character. He has all the intelligence and experiences of his past self. Let's see what he does with it.

  5. #605
    Incredible Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Maybe he's brining back Mister Sarcastic.
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  6. #606

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    is Tim officially college-aged now? Where does he live? Is he still an active Bat-partner locally?

  7. #607
    Incredible Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    is Tim officially college-aged now? Where does he live? Is he still an active Bat-partner locally?
    He's 16, but finished HS early. We're not sure where he lives as of right now. He was in 'Tec #1000 and Batman #70, but called from out of town. So I would not consider him local at this point.
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  8. #608
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    Quote Originally Posted by SixSpeedSamurai View Post
    He's 16, but finished HS early. We're not sure where he lives as of right now. He was in 'Tec #1000 and Batman #70, but called from out of town. So I would not consider him local at this point.
    Annoyingly, Tim actually seems to have lost less age as a result of the Flashpoint than most (about 5ish rather than the standard 10) even if you start from his "correct" (relative to debut) age, rather than the most recent pre-FP reference (which would put him at losing maybe 2 years).

  9. #609
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    Annoyingly, Tim actually seems to have lost less age as a result of the Flashpoint than most (about 5ish rather than the standard 10) even if you start from his "correct" (relative to debut) age, rather than the most recent pre-FP reference (which would put him at losing maybe 2 years).
    If they had aged all characters by the same amount of years, Tim would not have been Robin (or would have just started), and Damian would have been a Baby or Toddler.

    If Dick was 21 post flashpoint (I take him as reference because Bruce age was neither pre nor post FP that clear).

    If you by the most recent pre-FP ages, that would mean you had to age everybody down 5 or 6 years, which would put Tim (who was referenced to be 17) at only 11 or 12 (so 1 or 2 years before he became Robin).

    If you go by the debut ages, Dick was iirc 21 arround the time Tim had his debut, so he would have just started Training.



    What I found wirder is that Damian aged by 3 year since flashpoint while Tim is still the same age, and that Jason is now often written as beeing almost Dicks age, even is he shouldn't be much older than Tim.

  10. #610
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    If they had aged all characters by the same amount of years, Tim would not have been Robin (or would have just started), and Damian would have been a Baby or Toddler.
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    If Dick was 21 post flashpoint (I take him as reference because Bruce age was neither pre nor post FP that clear).
    True, although he's probably about the age Dick was pre-FP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    If you by the most recent pre-FP ages, that would mean you had to age everybody down 5 or 6 years, which would put Tim (who was referenced to be 17) at only 11 or 12 (so 1 or 2 years before he became Robin).

    If you go by the debut ages, Dick was iirc 21 arround the time Tim had his debut, so he would have just started Training.

    What I found wirder is that Damian aged by 3 year since flashpoint while Tim is still the same age, and that Jason is now often written as beeing almost Dicks age, even is he shouldn't be much older than Tim.
    Bruce's age was roughly - mostly by implication - estimated at around mid-40s pre-FP, so lost 10-15 years.

    Dick was about 30, so lost less than ten years.

    Jason was about 22, so may have lost 2-3 years, but no more than that.

    Tim was either 16 (offically) or 21 (narratively), so either lost no time at all or about five years.

    Barbara was 33, so lost about 12 years similar to Bruce.

  11. #611
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    . . . Dick was about 30, so lost less than ten years.

    . . . Barbara was 33, so lost about 12 years similar to Bruce.
    And yet, when Barbara first appeared, she was already a college graduate (with a Masters degree?) working for the Gotham City library when Dick hadn't yet graduated high school.

    Go figure!

  12. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shamrock Holmes View Post
    Bruce's age was roughly - mostly by implication - estimated at around mid-40s pre-FP, so lost 10-15 years.

    Dick was about 30, so lost less than ten years.

    Jason was about 22, so may have lost 2-3 years, but no more than that.

    Tim was either 16 (offically) or 21 (narratively), so either lost no time at all or about five years.

    Barbara was 33, so lost about 12 years similar to Bruce.
    But these ages are based on fan made time lines, these are not official, and the characters were not written like they were that age. Or at least Tim wasn't for the others the differnce wouldn't be big.

    If you go by the official ages pre flashpoint ages:
    - Bruce was stated to be 34 or 35 (which made no sense)
    - Kate was 32
    - Dick was 26 or 27
    - Steph was 19
    - Tim was 17
    - Damian was 10
    - Jason and Cass age was never stated that late in the continuity, but based on their age differnce to Tim before OYL they would have also been 19
    - Barbaras age was actually never clearly stated, but she was iirc said to be the same age as Dick in Black Mirror (even if she has allways been older than him in previous stories)

  13. #613
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    If there's not an Earth One Wildcat anymore Then I think That could be a cool hero identity for Tim.

  14. #614
    Ultimate Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photon Torme View Post
    If there's not an Earth One Wildcat anymore Then I think That could be a cool hero identity for Tim.
    We're still waiting for DC to reveal what happened / what will happen with the JSA . . .

  15. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    We're still waiting for DC to reveal what happened / what will happen with the JSA . . .
    and waiting...and waiting...and waiting....

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