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  1. #721
    Spectacular Member witchboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    Biggest problem with Legacy characters, IMO. That, and that they don't get to grow into their own unique roles (like Dick got to). For so many of the fans, they'll always be stand-ins for the "real" hero-who's-name-they-have. I think it can still work for kid characters and roles they outgrow (though I'd honestly prefer they have their own names, too), but it bothers me for adults. I also think it leads to more fan infighting over which is the best, as usually both can't operate at the same time and you have to get rid of one, and it can, but doesn't always, make tag-searching on websites problematic (especially for non-human characters without surnames). I do understand the real-world business reasons it happens.

    My problem with her providing support for others is two-fold - one, I feel it places her in the role of an employee or resource to them, when that doesn't go both ways (or at least isn't shown to nearly as often). Two, they all managed to handle that end of things on their own perfectly well before Oracle took on the role, so it feels like a role invented for her - has a sort meta-make-work vibe for me in the sense that I feel like had the character never been paralyzed, they'd have done just fine without her. Whereas without her, the BoP would never exist (yes, I am annoyed with the movie and the comic without her). Seems like they manufactured a need since the character had the abilities, if you know what I mean? I similarly don't like her working for the Batfam in that way, even if I enjoy the personal dynamic between the characters.
    I agree with what you say overall. Everyone did manage without her, so it can feel like make work for her. But, I think it probably was also a bit too easy that they did manage without her in that department. I never saw other heroes in a role of employee to her. The same situation could be flipped and it could look like she's working for them. I always saw it as a cooperation.
    Babs being paralyzed and becoming Oracle, it's always a double edged sword, because it could be seen as problematic the way it happened, but she was a fantastic character who was also disabled and her development after that was brilliant as Oracle. I can also appreciate that her returning to being Batgirl also restored an iconic heroine.
    If we get a new Oracle - and we need a new new one as no once cares for the new one - it could help to have it be someone who is already a beloved important character, which is why I thought of Tim for that role.
    I do hate the new costume. The colors are drab, the unnecessary lines are just ugly. A little streamlining and adding some color would go a long way.

  2. #722
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    While I do think the name of Oracle is unique to Babs and Babs alone, if they call Tim something else, still allow him to be just as much of a rooftop vigilante as he's always been AND perform in a role similar to what Orcale used to do, I think this would be awesome. Take that physical aspect out from the character, though, and it'd be a disaster.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  3. #723
    Spectacular Member witchboy's Avatar
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    I did think that Tim could continue to be a rooftop vigilante as well as doing the Oracle gig, but then he'd probably need another code name fro doing the rooftop thing, so we're back where we started

  4. #724
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    I don't see why he couldn't use the same name for both being a vigilante and his information providing role. I think that would be one of the best things about it! It would completely redefine the role of the information broker in the DCU for the better!
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  5. #725
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    Why wouldn’t they just use Babs to switch between the role of information broker and rooftop hero if they were interested in someone doing that.

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Why wouldn’t they just use Babs to switch between the role of information broker and rooftop hero if they were interested in someone doing that.
    True. If they want someone to be information broker and rooftop hero at the same time, they can use Barbara for this.

    If DC puts someone else on information broker role (Oracle), that would likely be its main role.

  7. #727
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    EDIT: Also, I'm don't really think they'd choose Sparrow as a name. Sparrows have a small and delicate reputation, and it's the kind of name that seems more likely for a female character. Especially after "Lark" didn't take for Duke. Or was that not due to unpopularity? Also, we already had a Robin-Sparrow - though I don't actually think that counts. I don't think Robin (as a bird name, rather than a Robin Hood reference) would be chosen for a male character today.
    Agreed. I get a twitch every time I hear a cute little weak bird name for Tim. Robin has a history AND it has the Robin Hood connection which they bring in just about every time they mention Dick's origin. The whole 'bats and birds' theme is weak from the get go... I'd really hate to see them double down on it. I feel similar to sports mascots. If you're going to name yourself after something... there should be SOME kind of attribute you want to emulate. Wolverines are tough and mean... Colts are fast... Penguins are naturals on ice... SOMETHING!!! I went to a local sports game with our home town Loons vs. the Dragons... and REALLY... HOW can I root for 'loons'...

    If you're coming up with a name then it should be SOME kind of fierce or something that describes you.... and 'Sparrow' doesn't do it.




    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    My problem with her providing support for others is two-fold - one, I feel it places her in the role of an employee or resource to them, when that doesn't go both ways (or at least isn't shown to nearly as often). Two, they all managed to handle that end of things on their own perfectly well before Oracle took on the role, so it feels like a role invented for her - has a sort meta-make-work vibe for me in the sense that I feel like had the character never been paralyzed, they'd have done just fine without her. Whereas without her, the BoP would never exist (yes, I am annoyed with the movie and the comic without her). Seems like they manufactured a need since the character had the abilities, if you know what I mean? I similarly don't like her working for the Batfam in that way, even if I enjoy the personal dynamic between the characters. Of course, I also don't like Dick getting jobs from Batman, so that's another issue there. I don't care for her ever being Batman's protege, and so don't like her getting assignments from Batman - not even in the dynamic where he's the client "hiring" her. I really like the young ones branching out and going on their own, preferably not in the same city as any other hero (as they will always be subordinate there if the other hero is in their comic). Moreso with Bruce, since he acts like owns Gotham in recent decades. Pre-COIE, they could both work there with no thought of Batman being Batgirl's boss, but it just doesn't seem to work that way anymore.

    1) Tim can NOT be a new Oracle. That would be the worst possible thing for him to do. He's already the third Robin, the Second Red Robin and now people want him to be the 2nd Oracle?!? IF he can't be Robin any more... and I hate Damian for starting THAT issue,. He REALLY needs a unique name and an unique costume that is all HIS. He can't have a hand-me-down THREE times.

    2) and YES, I agree completely with the entire Oracle CONCEPT. I always hated her being on comms relaying information that Batman USED to be able to do himself. He was the worlds greatest detective and then suddenly he needed Barbara to be on the computer to tell him all the facts and override the security systems and everything else? The moment she started to do THAT... Batman's ability diminished a LOT... Adding in a dozen other Batfamily characters didn't help either. Now when there's a problem he can let loose the Bat-army and it really weakens his character.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Agreed. I get a twitch every time I hear a cute little weak bird name for Tim. Robin has a history AND it has the Robin Hood connection which they bring in just about every time they mention Dick's origin. The whole 'bats and birds' theme is weak from the get go... I'd really hate to see them double down on it. I feel similar to sports mascots. If you're going to name yourself after something... there should be SOME kind of attribute you want to emulate. Wolverines are tough and mean... Colts are fast... Penguins are naturals on ice... SOMETHING!!! I went to a local sports game with our home town Loons vs. the Dragons... and REALLY... HOW can I root for 'loons'...

    If you're coming up with a name then it should be SOME kind of fierce or something that describes you.... and 'Sparrow' doesn't do it.







    1) Tim can NOT be a new Oracle. That would be the worst possible thing for him to do. He's already the third Robin, the Second Red Robin and now people want him to be the 2nd Oracle?!? IF he can't be Robin any more... and I hate Damian for starting THAT issue,. He REALLY needs a unique name and an unique costume that is all HIS. He can't have a hand-me-down THREE times.

    2) and YES, I agree completely with the entire Oracle CONCEPT. I always hated her being on comms relaying information that Batman USED to be able to do himself. He was the worlds greatest detective and then suddenly he needed Barbara to be on the computer to tell him all the facts and override the security systems and everything else? The moment she started to do THAT... Batman's ability diminished a LOT... Adding in a dozen other Batfamily characters didn't help either. Now when there's a problem he can let loose the Bat-army and it really weakens his character.
    Agreed. Fans have mistaken his for her attributes enough. Nothing wrong with inheritance, until Dc pretend hes the ONLY and the BESt whatever and dimiss his predecessors.
    Last edited by nhienphan2808; 08-21-2019 at 09:07 PM.

  9. #729
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Nevermind.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 08-22-2019 at 04:01 AM.

  10. #730
    Astonishing Member OBrianTallent's Avatar
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    Rather than call him Oracle, which leaves him taking yet another second gen name, why not call him Network? it has a similar tone but is unique to him.

  11. #731
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OBrianTallent View Post
    Rather than call him Oracle, which leaves him taking yet another second gen name, why not call him Network? it has a similar tone but is unique to him.
    Command.com..sorry Reboot flashback. Actually, I'm not really interested in him doing those kids of duties any moreso than several other heros, and wouldn't give him a name based on it.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godlike13 View Post
    Why wouldn’t they just use Babs to switch between the role of information broker and rooftop hero if they were interested in someone doing that.
    I'd obviously be okay with this, too. All I'm saying is that if they decide to go the information broker route with Tim, also being a rooftop vigilante at the same time would be the preferred one I wish they would take.
    His current approval rating is 34%, meaning 34% of Americans are still morons.

  13. #733

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    Network could work if you play up the mobile hacker angle- think Watch Dogs the videogame.

  14. #734
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I'm not digging the brown... it's so basic. Tim is more vibrant than that. If Nightwing has electric blue and black, they should have gone with green, black, and gold accents for Tim.

    I'll freak if they go with Boy Wonder or Barn Swallow as a codename.

    I really need to do a color theory and color psychology analysis of the primary and expanded Batfamily members' codenames and costumes.

  15. #735
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I'm not digging the brown... it's so basic. Tim is more vibrant than that. If Nightwing has electric blue and black, they should have gone with green, black, and gold accents for Tim.

    I'll freak if they go with Boy Wonder or Barn Swallow as a codename.

    I really need to do a color theory and color psychology analysis of the primary and expanded Batfamily members' codenames and costumes.
    Nah, it'll be Pigeon Boy. And Pigeons are often called rats with wings. And so are bats. And right there is how you get the family connection.

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