One of the Superboy's to be renamed?

[Cmbmool]

I don't think that means he can't ever, ever, ever, ever get a name change where he's not Robin. For all we know, WB didn't let Snyder make Duke Robin because Duke isn't a white kid with dark hair like literally all the other Robins are dawn. Less reason to question synergy across media as it affects the layman when you're swapping out one white kid with dark hair for another. Kind of a mess up thing to assume, I know, but I don't feel like I'm super off the mark in assuming it as the main reason.

That said, for all I know Damian and Jon may story Robin and Superboy, and Conner and Tim may end up being whatever else. I just find that harder to see right now, but that's just from my POV.

So you’re saying that WB TPTB are racist because they don’t like anything different with their Batman cash cow ?

[Superlad93]

So you’re saying that WB TPTB are racist because they don’t like anything different with their Batman cash cow ?

Lmao nah. I'm not even remotely saying that, or at least not trying to. I'm saying that it's easier to market toys, movies, and TV shows along side comics if the Robin character looked pretty much the same. They could be far less precious about it now, or that could've never been the case, and it's always just been a want for Damian to be Robin. I'm literally just saying what you're saying: they don't like much to be different with Batman.

But, like, what do I know about it, right? I don't work at WB or DC. I just gave out a possibility. That's why I started it by saying "for all we know."

[HsssH]

I think they more so solved this by making Robin a "movement" with We Are Robin. Robin now has its own legacy and idea behind it outside of being Batman's sidekick. Plus, Batman and Robin haven't actively worked together for years now.

Yeah, but thats relevant to us, nerds, who follow this type of stuff. If you, for example, create blockbuster movie with Batman and Robin then it might be simpler (and safer) to just do father and son relationship instead of regular Batman/Robin dynamics.

But granted, I don't know for sure and this is just me throwing out random theories.

[Frontier]

I think they more so solved this by making Robin a "movement" with We Are Robin. Robin now has its own legacy and idea behind it outside of being Batman's sidekick. Plus, Batman and Robin haven't actively worked together for years now.

I don't We Are Robin as a book or a concept caught on enough for it to have had a lasting impact on the Robin mantle moving forward beyond maybe some context for Duke that he was "technically" Robin.

Robin has always had it's own legacy behind it before WAR, but the support role it plays for Batman is still kind of integral to the character even if it doesn't seem like anybody but Peter Tomasi cares about writing Batman and Robin together.

[Superlad93]

Yeah, but thats relevant to us, nerds, who follow this type of stuff. If you, for example, create blockbuster movie with Batman and Robin then it might be simpler (and safer) to just do father and son relationship instead of regular Batman/Robin dynamics.

But granted, I don't know for sure and this is just me throwing out random theories.

That's a good point, and it's why I've liked Damian best as Robin, and Jon best as Superboy. It's such an easy idea to get, and so simple to explain to anyone. That said, the simplicity of being able to get who and what Damian and Jon are as character is also why it wouldn't surprise me if they both left those titles behind. There "stickiness" to their brands and ideas are stronger than all their peers, so if I were faced with the situation where their are two Superboys and two Robins, I'd give the recognizable names to the ones that aren't the sons of Superman and Batman.

Plus, like, why would Bendis have Tim who was already established as Red Robin before he went on ice return to being Robin if he wasn't gonna keep it? Like, why not either have him keep that name or just transition to a new one by the end of the arc without any Robin interaction at all? That just kind of screams to be "yeah, he's likely keeping it." The Jon/Kon stuff is a bit more vague, but Bendis has created a situation where Jon is very likely going to have to expose his secret identity because at the moment the Kents can't tell you were their 11 year old son is. Plus at almost every turn Bendis has had hammered home the idea that Jon is leaving boyhood behind. Literally has Lobo say "you're a man when you decide to be", and then two issues later has Jon have that moment of choice: wait on the idea that an adult is coming to help him, or decide to be the adult that helps himself. That's why I'm thinking he'll go by Jon Kent, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones style.

But then there's the Conner stuff with the wife and kid, and an interview about Wonder Comics where Bendis said the line is about kids/teens who are now having to deal with adult issues, and I just don't know. It's such a thematic toss up between the two characters right now. But I still genuinely think his wife and child aren't what they seem. Plus, Cassie doesn't seem like she's gonna stop calling herself Wonder Girl any time soon, so I dunno.

[Konja7]

In my opinion, Tim appear as Robin in Young Justice, because Bendis wants to appeal nostalgia for this comic.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Robin is just a temporary identity for Tim until Bendis gives him a new identity.

[dietrich]

@Superlad Correct. Synder did want Duke

We were talking about a lot of thing's including: who DC might want in the role.
The suggestion that the line from the solicit of best Robin might reflect Dc's opinion. etc

My argument is Even if WB didn't want a black Robin.
If they only cared about Bruce clones they didn't NEED to bring Damian back since there was already a Bruce clone who was alive, already owned the costume and ready to fill the role.

Bringing Damian complicated matters. DC and WB had easier and simpler options if the aim was just based on aesthetics.
If DC held the same opinion as the solicits and WB just wanted a white dark haired kid then that was their chance to put Tim back in the role since his RR title was over.

Yeah, but unfortunately you edited that while I was typing my reply to what you had before, so I didn't notice it. .

[/QUOTE]

Fair enough.

Regardless of who gets renamed. I'm sure it's going to make for a good story I hope.

[Superlad93]

The suggestion that the line from the solicit of best Robin might reflect Dc's opinion.

Just to be super clear: I'm not suggesting that DC actually thinks Tim is the best Robin. I think there's a healthy bit of tongue in cheek nature to it as they highlight the fact that Tim Drake totally is Robin and not Red Robin or any variant right now. That choice, along with Bendis deliberately making Tim Drake Robin again when he seemed to function fine as a lead character when he was Red Robin for years, seems, well, deliberate to me, ya know? Like, I can't not notice that. There's confirmed re branding on the way, so I'm scratching my head wondering why one would have the story and the solicit go out of their way frame Tim as Robin if he was the one changing his name? Seems to me that they could've either kept him as Red Robin or introduced him as Red Robin then changed it, right?

And I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of what Damian is up to now, but last I heard his mission statement for the new Teen Titans was breaking away from how his father and his father's friends do this whole hero thing, and things seem to be reaching a boiling point from what I hear now that his secret prison is uncovered, and Deathstroke may be killed by a Teen Titan.

Just looking at that along with the choice to call Tim Robin again at all, with the limited information I have, would have me think Damian may be the one in the position for a shift. That's just genuinely what it looks like from my, again, limited, view.

Regardless of who gets renamed. I'm sure it's going to make for a good story I hope.

That's all I ultimately care for. I don't even really have a dog in this race in terms of who I actively want to be renamed or not. I just have characters who I feel the narrative is pointing towards. But I won't be crushed if it turns out wrong.

[dietrich]

Just to be super clear: I'm not suggesting that DC actually thinks Tim is the best Robin. I think there's a healthy bit of tongue in cheek nature to it as they highlight the fact that Tim Drake totally is Robin and not Red Robin or any variant right now. That choice, along with Bendis deliberately making Tim Drake Robin again when he seemed to function fine as a lead character when he was Red Robin for years, seems, well, deliberate to me, ya know? Like, I can't not notice that. There's confirmed re branding on the way, so I'm scratching my head wondering why one would have the story and the solicit go out of their way frame Tim as Robin if he was the one changing his name? Seems to me that they could've either kept him as Red Robin or introduced him as Red Robin then changed it, right?

And I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of what Damian is up to now, but last I heard his mission statement for the new Teen Titans was breaking away from how his father and his father's friends do this whole hero thing, and things seem to be reaching a boiling point from what I hear now that his secret prison is uncovered, and Deathstroke may be killed by a Teen Titan.

Just looking at that along with the choice to call Tim Robin again at all, with the limited information I have, would have me think Damian may be the one in the position for a shift. That's just genuinely what it looks like from my, again, limited, view.




That's all I ultimately care for. I don't even really have a dog in this race in terms of who I actively want to be renamed or not. I just have characters who I feel the narrative is pointing towards. But I won't be crushed if it turns out wrong.

Yeah Damian did set up the new TT because he wanted to do thing's differently but he's ended up doing pretty much everything his dad is doing in his own title.
Holding prisoners in his own illegal ass secret jail

resorting to physically abuse when he suspects a family member of betraying [though in his case Jason beat the crap out of him whereas bruce beat the crap out of Jason]

And he's about to KGBeast Slade

Seems like he is doing thing's Bruce's way afterall.

Bruce doesn't really have any grounds since Damian is just apeing him.

Thomas told bruce to care for his son and stop being Batman. Bruce has been having nightmares about how he is ruining Damian's life [ likes pigs to the slaughter in the Knightmare arc]

There's some sense in Bruce taking Robin away in an attempt to heed his father, save his son and give him a good life [unlikely this will happen since that means Damian retires]

[Superlad93]

Seems like he is doing thing's Bruce's way afterall.

Sure, but has the narrative in the actual book been framing it that way? Has it been saying or alluding to the idea that Damian's new tactics are just like what his father would do, and is it presenting it in a positive light?

There's some sense in Bruce taking Robin away in an attempt to heed his father, save his son and give him a good life [unlikely this will happen since that means Damian retires]

Now that you mention it, I remember hearing about this. Bruce may take the mantel away, and Damian being hurt, "screw that", and just creating his own identity. And this would fit the King dictated changes you spoke about before. It would also fit into the whole "beat Bruce down" mission King is on with this leg of his run.

[dietrich]

Sure, but has the narrative in the actual book been framing it that way? Has it been saying or alluding to the idea that Damian's new tactics are just like what his father would do, and is it presenting it in a positive light?



Now that you mention it, I remember hearing about this. Bruce may take the mantel away, and Damian being hurt, "screw that", and just creating his own identity. And this would fit the King dictated changes you spoke about before. It would also fit into the whole "beat Bruce down" mission King is on with this leg of his run.

They've not framed not as good or bad. Glass has pretty much avoided that. The emphasis has been more on him lying to his team and misleading them.
There was one issue where Alfred tells him his acting like his grandfather for trying to hurt Jason. [funnily enough this comes right after a batman issue following Bruce brutally beating Jason for shooting Penguin where Alfred is seen enjoying his favourite tea while a blind folded, beatup and crying Penguin sits behind him in Bruce's own jail. That feels more than coincidence.

maybe they will get into the ethics of what he's doing in the treminus Agenda since the solicits mention Slade trying to fix him [translation get him to embrace his darkside]. Damian then has to make a choice batman's rule or save his friends


I think we have another possible reason his identity might change

[Darkcrusade25]

Off topic but sometimes I feel like the only person that's happy that Tim is Robin again. Red Robin never felt right, felt more like a cry to be called Robin again.

[Robanker]

Off topic but sometimes I feel like the only person that's happy that Tim is Robin again. Red Robin never felt right, felt more like a cry to be called Robin again.

I mean, I can't be the only one who thinks of a burger with an egg cracked on it when I hear "Red Robin," and I read Kingdom Come before I ever went to one of those restaurants. Granted, I also grew up with Dick as Robin on TV and Tim as Robin in the comics, so I suppose he's always going to be Robin in my mind.

[Kon93]

Redbird or Red-X works for me, for Tim, I dont want Tim or SB to be called Robin or superboy, but I feel just fine calling Cassie wonder girl and Bart impulse. I think superboy and Robin are legacy type names that have already been used for newer characters, while impulse and wondergirl have not(besides wallys daughter for like a half minute).

[dietrich]

Redbird or Red-X works for me, for Tim, I dont want Tim or SB to be called Robin or superboy, but I feel just fine calling Cassie wonder girl and Bart impulse. I think superboy and Robin are legacy type names that have already been used for newer characters, while impulse and wondergirl have not(besides wallys daughter for like a half minute).

Redbird and Red-X. I wonder why fans like Tim and Red when he doesn't wear red?
RedBird is an alternate Damian persona [also Tim's old vehicle]
Red-X is Dick Grayson [or Jason according to some] I think if Tim is going to go for another persona that has been used by other bat family Robin is the one that works best.