Do Spider-Man's villains suck?

[SpideyCeo]

I personally think they start getting bad as returning foes to a ongoing hero like Peter who's character is about becoming more mature and adult from defeating them. Characters like Mysterio, Kraven, Rhino, Electro and Sandman are losers with no consistantacy in being true threats to Peter with out Peter suffering pis due to them taking a back seat to peters narrative of fix his normal activities and spiderman activities. Villains should define the hero as a aspect of the heroes power to morally succeed, the more the hero progresses his character, the more they should perform great feats of villainy, with larger objectives other than taking over new York or getting revenge. It shows they too can become developed characters that grow into bigger picture villains like doom. Most of Spider's big villains act as actual rivals than evil threats to innocents and Peter. I really hate Peter being such a victim of terrible writting when he struggles with villains like Mysterio or Kraven, its.like he forgot he a legendary veteran badass who can overpower these two and has genius level skils and experience taking them down. A villain that lame shouldn't be able to go into other books and become a threat to other heroes and villains, that's pis, Peter has got to have the most inconsistent villain threats in fiction because thanks to the setting and the self contained nature of the books, Spidey villains really feel incapable of being taken seriously when the hero does more outlandish feats of heroism outside the main title, and I am supposed to believe characters like morbius and Kraven can take on Peter and has issues taking them on?

Note I make it a rule, that if villains face off and lose to characters like deadpool and wolverine who humiliate someome like Kraven or Shocker more than once, while being written to somehow to fight equally with Spider-man or Cap in another comic, they are poorly written.

[WebSlingWonder]

What the heck is this thread?

No, Spider-Man's villains don't suck. They're well written and just as human as he is. Even the B-list like Electro, Sandman, Vulture, Mysterio, and more have more depth to them than most other supervillains in any company. Regarding Spidey losing to them...that's just what happens sometimes, hence why they're recurring villains.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Spider-Man's villains suck because Spider-Man's stories aren't about them. This isn't Batman where the hero's main relationships are with his bad guys. Spider-Man is about Peter and his supporting cast, and the villains fit in that milieu.

So by design and function, Spider-Man's villains aren't all that impressive when you look deep or do head-to-head comparisons.

When you think of Marvel Comics' greatest villains: Doctor Doom, Galactus, Magneto, Thanos, Kang the Conqueror, Ultron, Red Skull, Loki...none of them are Spider-Man villains.

[WebSlingWonder]

Spider-Man's villains suck because Spider-Man's stories aren't about them. This isn't Batman where the hero's main relationships are with his bad guys. Spider-Man is about Peter and his supporting cast, and the villains fit in that milieu.

So by design and function, Spider-Man's villains aren't all that impressive when you look deep or do head-to-head comparisons.

When you think of Marvel Comics' greatest villains: Doctor Doom, Galactus, Magneto, Thanos, Kang the Conqueror, Ultron, Red Skull, Loki...none of them are Spider-Man villains.

Umm... that doesn't mean his villains suck though. They're not on the world stage of the Marvel Universe in terms of feats. And in my opinion, they don't need to.

[Zeitgeist]

When you think of Marvel Comics' greatest villains: Doctor Doom, Galactus, Magneto, Thanos, Kang the Conqueror, Ultron, Red Skull, Loki...none of them are Spider-Man villains.

Green Goblin/Norman Osborn and Doc Ock definitely have a place within that group, IMO.

[Jeramas]

Green Goblin/Norman Osborn and Doc Ock definitely have a place within that group, IMO.

For killing Gwen Stacy, no doubt , he is one of the greatest.

Doc Ock for everything great about Spiderman 2.

Spiderman 2 really toned down the comical cartoonery aspect of Doc Ock. Raimi made him more of a sci-fi villain than a stereotyped comic book villain as he did with green goblin in Spiderman 1

[SuperiorIronman]

For killing Gwen Stacy, no doubt , he is one of the greatest.

Doc Ock for everything great about Spiderman 2.

Spiderman 2 really toned down the comical cartoonery aspect of Doc Ock. Raimi made him more of a sci-fi villain than a stereotyped comic book villain as he did with green goblin in Spiderman 1

Yeah but killing Gwen Stacy happened in the 70's. Sure things spun out of that like Sins Past and American Son, but just because it is a legendary moment in comics doesn't make Green Goblin a great villain nor does it make what came after good either. I'd argue that the only other thing people really gave a damn about with Norman was taking over SHIELD, and yet Green Goblin was barely present in Dark Avengers.

And on to that point about toning down Green Goblin, Raimi Norman Osborn is probably one of the better versions. I say this because the comics have pretty much forgotten that their is a struggle between Norman and Goblin. He is violent, he can be a killer, but Norman himself is a highly flawed but overall good human. Green Goblin holds roots in Objectivism where there is a clear distinction between right and wrong and that it exists beyond the self. Norman's blackouts are a literal example of this as his mind (or even Norman himself willingly) is trying to deny what he's doing and to some extent even as wrong. Its played goofier in the films but that's due to the Raimi films having origins in comics and having to visually shorthand explain to the audience that Norman is losing his mind.

[Prof. Warren]

Green Goblin/Norman Osborn and Doc Ock definitely have a place within that group, IMO.

And let's not forget The Kingpin, who is absolutely a top-tier Marvel villain.

As much as some associate Fisk with DD, it shouldn't be forgotten that he originated in Spidey's rogue gallery.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

And let's not forget The Kingpin, who is absolutely a top-tier Marvel villain.

As much as some associate Fisk with DD, it shouldn't be forgotten that he originated in Spidey's rogue gallery.

Yes but the Kingpin who originated in Spider-Man's corner wasn't all that interesting until Frank Miller took him to Daredevil and that version of Kingpin is sent back to Spider-Man's corner since then. And Kingpin's last big story in Spider-Man was Back in Black and Read 'Em and Weep both of which involved Peter wiping the floor with him and humiliating him at Poker.

Doc Ock for everything great about Spiderman 2.

Spiderman 2 really toned down the comical cartoonery aspect of Doc Ock. Raimi made him more of a sci-fi villain than a stereotyped comic book villain as he did with green goblin in Spiderman 1

Spider-Man 2's Dr. Octopus is a meat-puppet manipulated by the AI of his arms. That means that whatever he does as Dr. Octopus is not really his fault and agency. That cheapens the character where Dr. Octopus has always been a rational character who acts and behaves with all his faculties. This guy is also an incompetent scientist who dropped the ball on lab safety and got his wife killed and whose experiment was always going to destroy stuff. The only time Dr. Octopus was cool in that movie was when the arms started attacking hospital people, when he went on a rampage, and when he affected natty gangster mannerisms. In other words when he behaved like a cartoon villain in Spider-Man 2.

The Dr. Octopus in his greatest stories, Master Planner and Owl/Octopus War is a scientist-gangster and is essentially an external threat. Like in Master Planner, the climax is when Peter lifts that machinery. That is his bad guy in that story. The entire internal drama boils down there. After that, Dr. Octopus folds like a b-tch and the rest of the story isn't about him.

I've never found Galactus or Namor to be either complex or tragic. You described Hate Monger and Psych man's abilities not their personalities.

The important thing is that there is a synch between character and personality and that they provide thematic depth to the conflict. As a rule FF's rogues, and Batman's rogues, do that more often than Spider-Man's villains do.

[Killerbee911]

I don't know what was more disrespectful this thread or this statement in this thread

When you think of Marvel Comics' greatest villains: Doctor Doom, Galactus, Magneto, Thanos, Kang the Conqueror, Ultron, Red Skull, Loki...none of them are Spider-Man villains.

Kingpin, Green Goblin and Venom/Carnage aren't among Marvel's greatest villains? To each their own I guess but this thread is mad disrespectful


Batman, Superman, Fantastic Four, Flash, X-men and Spiderman.These are arguably the top groups of villains Spiderman is Top 6 and in Top 3 or 4 if you are going by solo heroes. I can't believe people are criticizing Spiderman villians in world Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Hulk, Dr Strange, Black Panther can barely scrape together 6 or 7 good villains.

[NC_Yankee]

I don't know what was more disrespectful this thread or this statement in this thread



Kingpin, Green Goblin and Venom/Carnage aren't among Marvel's greatest villains? To each their own I guess but this thread is mad disrespectful

I do not know of anyone who knows anything about comic books that does not consider Kingpin, Green Goblin and Venom/Carnage to be great villains ( I would add Doc Ock, Mysterio, Hobgoblin (Kingsley), Rhino and Lizard to that list)). Does this mean all Spider-Man villains are great? No Gibbon and Kangeroo are "D-Listers" and there are others that just never appealed to me like Morbius and Chameleon. But the percentage of well done bad guys that you find in Spider-Man is better then what you find in most other comic books ( perhaps Batman excluded).

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Spider-Man's villains suck because Spider-Man's stories aren't about them. This isn't Batman where the hero's main relationships are with his bad guys. Spider-Man is about Peter and his supporting cast, and the villains fit in that milieu.

So by design and function, Spider-Man's villains aren't all that impressive when you look deep or do head-to-head comparisons.

When you think of Marvel Comics' greatest villains: Doctor Doom, Galactus, Magneto, Thanos, Kang the Conqueror, Ultron, Red Skull, Loki...none of them are Spider-Man villains.

I'd say you're omitting at least one very important name there. I mean, in the minds of many people, Green Goblin would probably be considered one of Marvel's greatest villains.

[MichaelC]

Green Goblin vanished off the face of the earth for what, twenty years? He's famous for one key death rather than being a classic villain overall.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Green Goblin vanished off the face of the earth for what, twenty years? He's famous for one key death rather than being a classic villain overall.

Except then, he came back in the 90s and:

• framed Peter for murder
• tortured Peter to try to get him to become his heir
• created LMDs of Peter's parents
• kidnapped Peter and MJ's baby
• faked Aunt May's death
• killed Ben Reilly
• turned Carlie Cooper into Monster
• killed Seward Trainer
• buried Aunt May alive
• gave Flash Thompson brain damage
• bought out the Daily Bugle
• replaced Tony Stark as the leader of SHIELD and replaced it with HAMMER
• formed the Cabal with Doom, Loki, et. al.
• formed the Dark Avengers
• engineered the disaster in Chicago that gave him justification to lay siege to Asgard
• and, of course, it was revealed that he'd slept with Gwen Stacy and fathered twins with her (Ugh, I hate that story, but its useful in this instance)

And that's not even counting the fact that he killed Gwen Stacy in the first place. So, yeah, given that list its not hard to see why he'd be considered one of the best villains Marvel has to offer.

[SpideyCeo]

What the heck is this thread?

No, Spider-Man's villains don't suck. They're well written and just as human as he is. Even the B-list like Electro, Sandman, Vulture, Mysterio, and more have more depth to them than most other supervillains in any company. Regarding Spidey losing to them...that's just what happens sometimes, hence why they're recurring villains.

then why aren't they as popular as x-men villains? Even the spidey a lister villains and anti heroes dont compare to most of the xmen a lister villains and anti heroes. Magneto > Norman in being a complex villain.