My preference to villains has always been more of Magneto and Bane or Lex Luther. Some rave about spiderman and batman's rogues gallery but most of their villains suffer from cartooness. Sure those were the early description of what comics are. however, it does not hold up today because comics has evolved.
when I think of villains like green goblin, penguin, mystero, lizard man, mr freeze. I hate to say it but they all sound like bed time story villains in fairy tales to tell to kids. whereas other villains like Magneto, lex luther or Bane just makes you get scared and seem more real. If you watch Spiderman 2002 again, Norman Osborn as an ordinary man was more scary than the Green Goblin in the green suit.
So does his villains suck? No .
Are they cliche today? Yes.
For all the marvel's rogues gallery, I like x-men villains best. Magneto, Juggernaut, Mystique, Craydon Creed, Senator Kelly, Stryker Sentinels. I like them best because they are the most realistic of villains and are not as cartoonish as spiderman villains.many of them are more complex and can go from hero to villain.
Spiderman may have the best rogues gallery in marvel but x-men has the most interesting villains gallery. How many x-men heroes started off as villains or went from villain to hero. Juggernaut, Mystique, Gambit, Emma Frost, Senator Kelly, Rogue,Magneto.
Spiderman villains is the usual cat and mouse chase game villains and heroes play but as I said, story in comics evolved from that to something more grey, complex and interesting. We see it with batman villains too like Haley Quinn, Red Hood, Thalia Al Ghul and Catwoman not so much with Spiderman villains, who are one dimensional.
Last edited by Jeramas; 02-21-2019 at 02:26 AM.
Are you serious? Other than edgelord try hard teenagers who would root for a mass murderer like the Joker over Batman? Someone liking Ledgers Joker more than Bale's Batman for instance isn't the samething as people actively rooting for his Joker to succeed with his evil plans or kill Batman.
OP, Spider-Man easily has the 2nd most popular villains after Batman, Venom did over $800m at the box office, Suicide Squad which was full of Batman villains did $745m. You can argue the best performances in the Raimi trilogy (along with J.K. Simmons) were Defoe's Goblin and Molina's Doc Ock not Tobey MacGuire's Spider-Man. Same thing with Keaton's Vulture vs Holland's Spider-Man. A lot of people even *gasps* think Batman villains are overrated af, like Agent Z said some people find them to very cookie cutter, generic "Kuwazzy!" cardboard cutouts over being actual characters. Though they might not be as popular characters like Magneto, Dr. Doom, Loki, Lex Luthor and Erik Killmonger are seen as more complex, multi-dimensional characters by some.
Spiderman has the same batman villains weakness. Call it cartoonish, coooki cutter, generic , Kuwazzy!" cardboard cutouts both rogues gallery were early take of comics portraying villains as comical that does not hold up today, although Erik Killmoger is not multi-dimensional , not from the movie.
Last edited by Jeramas; 02-21-2019 at 03:09 AM.
To me Spider-Man have the best villains gallery of all super heroes.
All though i have read way more Spider-Man stories that Batman stories,and Batman have a impressive villains gallery.
For killing Gwen Stacy, no doubt , he is one of the greatest.
Doc Ock for everything great about Spiderman 2.
Spiderman 2 really toned down the comical cartoonery aspect of Doc Ock. Raimi made him more of a sci-fi villain than a stereotyped comic book villain as he did with green goblin in Spiderman 1
Complex, tragic figures like Galactus, The Mole Man, Puppet Master, Molecule Man, and Namor?
Villains who can turn a person's emotions inside out and reveal their deepest fears and hates like Psycho-Man and Hate Monger?
The FF's villains have no problem when it comes to depth.
Yes but the Kingpin who originated in Spider-Man's corner wasn't all that interesting until Frank Miller took him to Daredevil and that version of Kingpin is sent back to Spider-Man's corner since then. And Kingpin's last big story in Spider-Man was Back in Black and Read 'Em and Weep both of which involved Peter wiping the floor with him and humiliating him at Poker.
Spider-Man 2's Dr. Octopus is a meat-puppet manipulated by the AI of his arms. That means that whatever he does as Dr. Octopus is not really his fault and agency. That cheapens the character where Dr. Octopus has always been a rational character who acts and behaves with all his faculties. This guy is also an incompetent scientist who dropped the ball on lab safety and got his wife killed and whose experiment was always going to destroy stuff. The only time Dr. Octopus was cool in that movie was when the arms started attacking hospital people, when he went on a rampage, and when he affected natty gangster mannerisms. In other words when he behaved like a cartoon villain in Spider-Man 2.
The Dr. Octopus in his greatest stories, Master Planner and Owl/Octopus War is a scientist-gangster and is essentially an external threat. Like in Master Planner, the climax is when Peter lifts that machinery. That is his bad guy in that story. The entire internal drama boils down there. After that, Dr. Octopus folds like a b-tch and the rest of the story isn't about him.
The important thing is that there is a synch between character and personality and that they provide thematic depth to the conflict. As a rule FF's rogues, and Batman's rogues, do that more often than Spider-Man's villains do.
Yeah but killing Gwen Stacy happened in the 70's. Sure things spun out of that like Sins Past and American Son, but just because it is a legendary moment in comics doesn't make Green Goblin a great villain nor does it make what came after good either. I'd argue that the only other thing people really gave a damn about with Norman was taking over SHIELD, and yet Green Goblin was barely present in Dark Avengers.
And on to that point about toning down Green Goblin, Raimi Norman Osborn is probably one of the better versions. I say this because the comics have pretty much forgotten that their is a struggle between Norman and Goblin. He is violent, he can be a killer, but Norman himself is a highly flawed but overall good human. Green Goblin holds roots in Objectivism where there is a clear distinction between right and wrong and that it exists beyond the self. Norman's blackouts are a literal example of this as his mind (or even Norman himself willingly) is trying to deny what he's doing and to some extent even as wrong. Its played goofier in the films but that's due to the Raimi films having origins in comics and having to visually shorthand explain to the audience that Norman is losing his mind.
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For anyone that needs to know why OMD is awful please search the internet for Linkara' s video's specifically his One more day review or his One more day Analysis.
It’s what writers choose to do with the villains that makes them suck or not. Kravens Last Hunt is a huge example of that.
So no, his rogues gallery definitely does not suck.