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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doom Answers to No Master View Post
    Well i guess i am in the minority but Slott's writing of F4 has been fantastic (pun intended). He knows Doom's voice which makes me very happy...and I for one love seeing F4 vs. Doom stories...they are as timeless and important as Batman/Joker, Spiderman/Green Goblin, etc....the trick is to always change the game with them while acknowledging what came before...we don't know all of Doom's plans yet, lets see how it unfolds..besides I love the color of the last issue...very vibrant and alive...its nice to see Doom back in command of Latveria...I'm sorry but his stint as Infamous Iron Man, needed to end...it served his purpose...he can try to right wrongs as Doom having an entire nation at his command.
    Just because an archenemy exists, does not mean that its important. Doctor Doom being the archenemy to The Fantastic Four stems primarily from over usage and the retreading of the Reed/Victor relationship much like Batman and Joker. Archenemies don't exist because they are just that important of a villain (you don't gain importance just by existing), they are archenemies because they show up enough or are used in such a way that every time they confront the hero(s) the stakes are high to them. Good writing is always important but that kind of villain exists either due to a lack of villains or the refusal to use others which as seen in FF they tend to use Doctor Doom a lot.

    Doctor Doom pretty much only occupies the position he does due to the inability or refusal to use anybody else. Good stories do still happen but Infamous Iron man was necessary due to the long history of Doom coming in an upstaging what's going on in Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four is not about Doctor Doom. A major difference between Green Goblin, Joker, or even Lex Luthor, is that Doom is here far more consistently and therefore occupies a spot in the book never-mind that FF is again, not about him. Suffice to say he really shouldn't be here nor even so quickly back as ruler of Latveria.
    -----------------------------------
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  2. #32
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Vic's part of the family.
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  3. #33
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    of course he is Valeria's uncle doom.

  4. #34
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    Just because an archenemy exists, does not mean that its important. Doctor Doom being the archenemy to The Fantastic Four stems primarily from over usage and the retreading of the Reed/Victor relationship much like Batman and Joker. Archenemies don't exist because they are just that important of a villain (you don't gain importance just by existing), they are archenemies because they show up enough or are used in such a way that every time they confront the hero(s) the stakes are high to them. Good writing is always important but that kind of villain exists either due to a lack of villains or the refusal to use others which as seen in FF they tend to use Doctor Doom a lot.

    Doctor Doom pretty much only occupies the position he does due to the inability or refusal to use anybody else. Good stories do still happen but Infamous Iron man was necessary due to the long history of Doom coming in an upstaging what's going on in Fantastic Four. Fantastic Four is not about Doctor Doom. A major difference between Green Goblin, Joker, or even Lex Luthor, is that Doom is here far more consistently and therefore occupies a spot in the book never-mind that FF is again, not about him. Suffice to say he really shouldn't be here nor even so quickly back as ruler of Latveria.
    I completely agree with this.

    Plus, his dynamic with the others members has always been superficial. He only targets them because they are close to Reed, that's it.
    Last edited by Crimz; 02-22-2019 at 11:07 AM.
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  5. #35
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I completely agree with this.

    Plus, his dynamic with the others members has always been superficial. He only targets them because they are close to Reed, that's it.
    I think in his own way, he did get used to Johnny and Ben in MTIO. He admitted to Reed in the annual that he felt obligated to look after them.

    I think perhaps Slott figured that he might as well get a visit from Doom and/or Galactus in the book early on. It does free up the title to move on to other things.

  6. #36
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    Still not sure why Slott didn't take Ultimate Reed into the fold, I mean, it would make perfect sense for Maker to form a Council of evil Reeds,
    or just a league of infinite Makers following where Ewing leave Makes and the Ultimates

  7. #37
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think in his own way, he did get used to Johnny and Ben in MTIO. He admitted to Reed in the annual that he felt obligated to look after them.

    I think perhaps Slott figured that he might as well get a visit from Doom and/or Galactus in the book early on. It does free up the title to move on to other things.
    I think he may think more highly of Ben than Johnny, though. The Ben scenes in Infamous were the primary motivation for that, I'd say. My idea of Doom is he'd see Johnny as the FF's weak link. But being Victor, he'd want to stike at Reed, the head rather than Johnny. But I'd guess YMMV on Doom's motivations.

  8. #38
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalai View Post
    Still not sure why Slott didn't take Ultimate Reed into the fold, I mean, it would make perfect sense for Maker to form a Council of evil Reeds,
    or just a league of infinite Makers following where Ewing leave Makes and the Ultimates
    I named him "Mini-Reed".

    Last edited by CaptCleghorn; 02-22-2019 at 12:00 PM.

  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I think in his own way, he did get used to Johnny and Ben in MTIO. He admitted to Reed in the annual that he felt obligated to look after them.

    I think perhaps Slott figured that he might as well get a visit from Doom and/or Galactus in the book early on. It does free up the title to move on to other things.
    That change in dynamic came about because of his stint at trying to be a good guy. Even then his focus on them was only because Reed was presumed dead and they were the closest people to him. His obligation to them is only because of Reed, if Reed and Sue were on earth at the time he would ignore them in favor of Reed. If/When he returns to being a villain (if he hasn't already) all of that will go away and it will be him vs Reed again.

    Doom is arguably Marvel's best villain and a great villain for the FF in terms of power. However, in terms of motivation it will always be about Reed with the other being secondary at best.
    This is my problem, when your archvillian is focused on one member the others will never have stories with as much depth with that villain. Writers love using Doom and because his motivations are so tied with Reed the stories will 99% of the time be about the two of them. So we get stuck in this cycle of writers wanting to use Doom and because of it the stories will usually be Doom vs Reed in some aspect.

    This all ties into the teams villain problem. Outside of Doom and Galactus it's slim pickings, especially for villains with a halfway decent motivation and powerset.

    I guess the bright side is as you said, this mean that the Doom vs Reed story is being done early and gotten out of the way. Doom can appear in other books and hopefully other villains get developed to be more than just opening acts before Doom returns.
    Last edited by Crimz; 02-22-2019 at 12:43 PM.
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  10. #40
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I think he may think more highly of Ben than Johnny, though. The Ben scenes in Infamous were the primary motivation for that, I'd say. My idea of Doom is he'd see Johnny as the FF's weak link. But being Victor, he'd want to stike at Reed, the head rather than Johnny. But I'd guess YMMV on Doom's motivations.
    Yeah, I did like the moments Ben and Victor had in Infamous Iron, like Ben being given that little condo / retreat in Europe. And then Ben having to be saved from the doppleganger Cynthia von Doom. And they each have their own scars to deal with.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kalai View Post
    Still not sure why Slott didn't take Ultimate Reed into the fold, I mean, it would make perfect sense for Maker to form a Council of evil Reeds,
    or just a league of infinite Makers following where Ewing leave Makes and the Ultimates
    Isn't he busy doing a thing in Venom?
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  12. #42
    Fantastic Member Chainsaw Vigilante's Avatar
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    Well the outcome of what happens to Galactus here should tell me how much input the Allreds had in the Silver Surfer series they did with Slott seeing how respectful that series was to Galactus (and the Surfer of course).

  13. #43
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    spoilers:
    I thought the issue was fine. Reed and Sue were too trusting of Doom, they would be the ones to be more skeptical of the situation considering they didn't witness his attempt at being a hero. Not a fan of them being fine with following his orders.

    Really like the feats that Johnny and Ben got. Johnny's Nova being cosmic level is very cool and Ben being durable enough to withstand a blast from Galactus is awesome.
    Predictably, Johnny and Victorious are likely to have a thing and I'm meh about it.
    end of spoilers

    All in all it was fine. Not terrible, but also nothing that excited or surprised me.
    Last edited by Crimz; 02-27-2019 at 07:54 AM.
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    spoilers:
    I thought the issue was fine. Reed and Sue were too trusting of Doom, they would be the ones to be more skeptical of the situation considering they didn't witness his attempt at being a hero. Not a fan of them being fine with following his orders.

    Really like the feats that Johnny and Ben got. Johnny's Nova being cosmic level is very cool and Ben being durable enough to withstand a blast from Galactus is awesome.
    Predictably, Johnny and Victorious are likely to have a thing and I'm meh about it.
    end of spoilers

    All in all it was fine. Not terrible, but also nothing that excited or surprised me.
    Will be getting this later today....

    spoilers:
    I do like the Johnny is getting interested in someone but I guess I am in that minority of fans that prefer he get back with Crystal. I thin the cruel act that is teased for the upcoming issue will involve Victorious and I don't like the implications.
    end of spoilers

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Will be getting this later today....

    spoilers:
    I do like the Johnny is getting interested in someone but I guess I am in that minority of fans that prefer he get back with Crystal. I thin the cruel act that is teased for the upcoming issue will involve Victorious and I don't like the implications.
    end of spoilers
    My thing with Johnny and Crystal is that it made sense for them to break up. They were each others first love and that rarely lasts. It felt very real in that aspect.
    Ben and Alicia on the other hand felt like their break ups were for the sake of drama and not very natural. It didn't feel like something the characters would do, that's why I like that they got married.

    To have Johnny and Crystal back together feels more like a regression to me and it will never be as good as it was the first time. Heck, that could be the story. They could try and get back together, but find out that it won't work as they aren't those lovesick kids anymore. It could be a really adult look at a relationship and why sometimes trying to go back to how things were is a mistake. I especially don't see Johnny and Crystal happening after Medusa.
    Last edited by Crimz; 02-27-2019 at 09:59 AM.
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