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  1. #76
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I did sort of enjoy Sue's interaction with the Latverians she was protecting. That was a highlight to the story.

    It was fine, but it was more about the Latverians and their love for Doom. Any of the members could have had that interaction, Ben had a similar one last issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptCleghorn View Post
    I'm actually expecting Galactus to realize he's Galactus and the FF and Doom will need to work together to save everyone.

    As for Sue, I'm with you. I KNOW the Reed/Doom takes center stage, but if Johnny, Ben, the kids, and Alicia can get time, Sue needs more than not being able to sing.

    I think the story can still work. I love what's being done with characters that aren't Sue, Doom, or Galactus. Slott seems to have found a voice for them and is doing a good job with the kids. But Sue, Doom, and Galactus need to find a place in post-SW Marvel. I mean, I got a marvel previews at my LCS today with Galactus appearing in Dr Strange. Actually the more I go on, the worse my feelings about the book get.

    But despite it all, I did like this issue. "NO, No flying trucks." "Man, when did Aunt Alicia become such a buzzkill?"
    The family moments between the kids, Alicia, and Wyatt were one of the highlights. Those were done well.

    Sue 100% needs more to do. She hasn't been proactive at all in the run and only reactive. It's disappointing to see after she's been gone for 3 years. She feels more like a supporting character.
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  2. #77
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    How soon do you think that Doom's arrogant thinking is going to backfire on him? He's trying to prove to the world he's better than Reed again. (TV Broadcasts , really ?) In this integration of the FF they are paying Homage to the old FF. Anyone else seeing the Surfer coming back soon? Who's the Bad Guy at the house? We soon are going into two stories in the book. The Surfer might save Galactus.

  3. #78
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    I feel that this story has taken one step too far into contrived territory. Doomís plan assumed the F4 would turn up, help him, and yet he feels like he must punish them too. It just feels too much of a stretch. Plus if this is a fake out then itís even more of a stretch. I am disappointed to be saying this after a promising start, but I think I will be dropping this book. Itís not really doing anything for me aside from making me confused over the plot choices.

  4. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Watkins View Post
    speaking in the 3rd person doesn't make him Shakespearean. Donald Trump does it too.

    I didn't say that talking in the 3rd person is what made him Shakespearean...I meant his dialogue...very poetic, his quotes throughout 50 plus years of comic history...and as for OUR President, we are not going to go there cause I am sure you won't like what I have to say just like I am sure I don't want to hear your bashing of him.

  5. #80
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    Doom weaponized the fundamental forces of creation in his big bang cannons against Galactus and I was bored. I don't know how, but Slott made weaponizing the universe against Galactus boring. I found the kids stripping a truck for parts more interesting.

  6. #81
    FF purist/snob CaptCleghorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U.N. Owen View Post
    Doom weaponized the fundamental forces of creation in his big bang cannons against Galactus and I was bored. I don't know how, but Slott made weaponizing the universe against Galactus boring. I found the kids stripping a truck for parts more interesting.
    Because it was. The FF is all about the mix of cosmic and family, but when the cosmic elevates to stuff that jobs Galactus easily, the story can read like high school fan fiction. What was done against the Griever made sense and retained cosmic feeling. There was no magic device just there, just the FF making sure the Griever couldn't escape because she couldn't create. That's much better than the latest device which the writer spends the bulk of time coming up with a name for.

  7. #82
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    Jobbing is an interesting word here. After all these years, after all of their encounters, they've got Galactus figured out. Makes sense to me. It would make less sense if it wasn't so. If Galactus decided to do something new or act more tactically, then maybe it would be surprising, but he doesn't. He's the same as he has always been (but with less Heralds), but Doom and the 4 just get better and brighter. This is part of the reason why it is a shame to me that Lifegiver Galactus didn't last very long. I'm not surprised by any loss Galactus faces. At this point, everyone has beaten him, everyone knows him, what he is, what he's about, and everyone should be able to stomp him given enough time and effort. They'd have to suffer widespread amnesia for Galactus to have the upper hand. He's a Boss in a video game, you figure out his patterns and I don't care how difficult he is at first, it's a done deal. Keep beating that same boss? It becomes child's play. I wish he had more plans, I wish he used more tactics, wish he took these things seriously, but he has rarely been depicted as such.

  8. #83
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    Galactus used to just be God. Part of what makes God interesting is that we do not know everything about God. Like how we don't know everything about TOAA. We know everything about Galactus now (we've known it since Lee and Kirby's Thor), and the characters know everything about Galactus, so I don't see much of a problem with him not being much of an overwhelming threat against people best suited for this task specifically. I see him as just another piece on the board for this story that's not about him, it's about the family and their new dynamics. He's the buns of this burger, but not the meat or veggies.

    You really don't even need Galan for this story, I can't think of a better replacement, but you could do it. But it's really an inherent flaw with the standard version of the character. He only does one thing, so all the new stories are about him doing the same thing while everything else is different so you get something new. And the one thing he does is by default the least interesting beat because you've seen it before, so the literal biggest guy in the room is overshadowed by smaller people.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    In Secret Wars, that was the case. He needed the power of Galactus to challenge the Beyonder but even that wasn't enough. While the Beyonder was dissecting him, it distracted the Beyonder to activate some tech thing he built to absorb the Beyonders power. I remember in the Eric Larsen mini, he collected some powerful items like the Horn of Atlantic, the Cosmic Cube, etc until he gets powerful enough to challenge Galactus.
    Ok thanks

    I was concerned something had been changed history wise that I'd missed

    Appreciate your clarification

  10. #85
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Galactus used to just be God. Part of what makes God interesting is that we do not know everything about God. Like how we don't know everything about TOAA. We know everything about Galactus now (we've known it since Lee and Kirby's Thor), and the characters know everything about Galactus, so I don't see much of a problem with him not being much of an overwhelming threat against people best suited for this task specifically. I see him as just another piece on the board for this story that's not about him, it's about the family and their new dynamics. He's the buns of this burger, but not the meat or veggies.

    You really don't even need Galan for this story, I can't think of a better replacement, but you could do it. But it's really an inherent flaw with the standard version of the character. He only does one thing, so all the new stories are about him doing the same thing while everything else is different so you get something new. And the one thing he does is by default the least interesting beat because you've seen it before, so the literal biggest guy in the room is overshadowed by smaller people.
    Part of the problem is that after Galactus, Marvel kept adding more cosmic (for lack of a better word) entities until Galactus became just one of many. Even a lesser being like Thanos comes up with better plans then Galactus, who has become like a slave to his own hunger. We know he's destined to survive the next Big Bang, along with adult Franklin, when that comes along. But what does he have to do until then? Perhaps he should go into some kind of hibernation again.

  11. #86
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I feel that this story has taken one step too far into contrived territory. Doomís plan assumed the F4 would turn up, help him, and yet he feels like he must punish them too. It just feels too much of a stretch. Plus if this is a fake out then itís even more of a stretch. I am disappointed to be saying this after a promising start, but I think I will be dropping this book. Itís not really doing anything for me aside from making me confused over the plot choices.
    that's exactly the part that doesn't make sense to me either. The Fantastic Four have been to Latveria plenty of times before. Heck, Reed was invited over for dinner to discuss the incursion over Latveria. The relationship between Doom, Johnny and particularly Ben has evolved into a grudging respect and I kind of miss that. It's like as soon as Reed came back, everyone went back to square one. It's a shame IMO.

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    that's exactly the part that doesn't make sense to me either. The Fantastic Four have been to Latveria plenty of times before. Heck, Reed was invited over for dinner to discuss the incursion over Latveria. The relationship between Doom, Johnny and particularly Ben has evolved into a grudging respect and I kind of miss that. It's like as soon as Reed came back, everyone went back to square one. It's a shame IMO.
    The story has its own internal logic, but it feels totally contrived. As I hinted, there could be a so far unrevealed motive behind this strange part of Doom’s plan. By banning interference, knowing that Reed would come anyway, Doom was probably setting Reed and family up for this and whatever he has planned.

    I find it difficult to care about this because it’s all in Doom’s head. There is nothing in the story that has any driving motivation that isn’t potentially undermined by Doom’s forethought. It’s like watching a game of pass the parcel and knowing what the prize is and who will receive it.

    Even if the F4 cleverly escape their fate, their fate was somewhat artificial in the first place.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 03-01-2019 at 02:23 AM.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by JKtheMac View Post
    I feel that this story has taken one step too far into contrived territory. Doomís plan assumed the F4 would turn up, help him, and yet he feels like he must punish them too. It just feels too much of a stretch. Plus if this is a fake out then itís even more of a stretch. I am disappointed to be saying this after a promising start, but I think I will be dropping this book. Itís not really doing anything for me aside from making me confused over the plot choices.
    Did Doom plan on the FF coming to Latveria and was his plan reliant on the FF's intervention?

    I'm not so sure. He openly states at the end of this issue he had contingencies of his own on how to deal with Galactus. In #6 when Doom saw the hologram of the FF speeding into Latveria the look we see through his mask and his "Richards" conveys anger that they have come. It's not like his plan needed the help of the FF; all he needed to do was lure Galactus close to his bing bang cannons, I think that is well within Doom's abilities.

    I think the FF's intervention was probably not part of Doom's plan and they didn't do anything he couldn't have done himself but they will be integral at freeing Galactus and undoing what Doom has done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    that's exactly the part that doesn't make sense to me either. The Fantastic Four have been to Latveria plenty of times before. Heck, Reed was invited over for dinner to discuss the incursion over Latveria. The relationship between Doom, Johnny and particularly Ben has evolved into a grudging respect and I kind of miss that. It's like as soon as Reed came back, everyone went back to square one. It's a shame IMO.
    Doom had very publicly stated that there were to be no foreign incursions into Latveria.

    I would argue we're still seeing a grudging respect for all the FF members. As previously stated on this thread he's calling Johnny and Ben by their actual names instead of "dolts" or "imbeciles" like he normally would and he expresses seemingly sincere regret at having to execute them.

    You could argue the fact that he's giving them a proper execution instead of killing them on the field is a mark of respect and solicits for future issues make reference that this is something he doesn't want to do but feels he has to. Doom is definitely back in villainous dictator mode (regardless of his seemingly good motives) but I don't believe all the character progress has been swept under the rug.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member JKtheMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbus View Post
    Did Doom plan on the FF coming to Latveria and was his plan reliant on the FF's intervention?
    Yep it is right there in the text of these last two issues. The fact he had contingencies is somewhat mute. He planned on them being there and he planned on how to use them when they arrived. Presumably he also planned their punishment and has plans for what happens when the inevitable rescue attempt happens.

    My point is, even if this ultimately turns into a story about Doom’s hubris, it all feels too contrived because the character within the story feels like he is doing more writing than the actual writer.

    It’s a game of “ah but of course I foresaw even your knowledge of me forseeing, and laid plans...”

    To me this is just not interesting. I don’t consider this to be what a reboot of the Fantastic Four should be. Maybe I will check back in once this Doom plot has passed, but I get the distinct feeling this is setup for a much longer Doom story.
    Last edited by JKtheMac; 03-01-2019 at 05:12 AM.

  15. #90
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    I genuinely don't know where it went wrong in Dan's scripting but man, this was bad for him.

    So we'll just take this play by play;
    1. The flashback to Victor's childhood has no bearing on what is happening. Why is it here? To show Victor won't surrender? He's Doctor Doom, WE KNOW HE WONT.
    2. The art is fine but "Big bang cannons" is so dumb of an idea I don't know why its here.

    The Big bang is an event from a singularity that through explosion caused everything to disperse and create the universe over time as we know it. Sub-atomic is altered, but that's over time as the dispersed elements combined and smashed into each other. It's not a cannon. The Big bang could be weaponized in that an explosion that large would for sure be lethal, but it does not inherently alter atoms.

    Also another point, GALAN WAS THERE FOR IT. Galan existed in the prior iteration of the universe, experienced the big bang first hand, and lived. This is going to do nothing to him. It should also be noted that he absorbs energy, so what the Hell is Human Torch doing attacking him if all he'll do is absorb his Nova blast? And yeah Ben, I'm sure throwing rocks at him is going to bring down a cosmic god. This is stupid.

    3. Art isn't bad, but for a cannon that uses the big bang to somehow alter sub-atomic structure these look really lame. You could replace these with Iron man's repulsors and it would look no different. Also, there are people just standing there underneath the active cannon.

    4. The kids are a break from the action when we not only don't know anything about the main-plot, they are a chore.

    5. Galan is at full power! And yet he's easily knocked out by the newest OC and he also can't fry Ben Grimm...sure.

    6.Galan is at full power! And yet he also didn't notice Reed forming his hands into the Ultimate Nullifier despite him needing to inspect closer to even know that's Reed because he's a giant and Reed is that small comparably so how he knew it was Reed and not the Nullifier I don't know. Also, The UN is an aspect of Galactus himself and woul give off an energy signal meaning that Galactus really did take his word for it. That's like me getting mugged by a midget with finger guns. That's too stupid for me not to notice what's happening.

    7. So the point was making Galactus a power source? Not bringing back the lifebringer? Not showing himself a hero by stopping an oncoming threat? Doom plans to tap into untold power cosmic, just happens to have a battery to hold it, and needed the FF for that? All Doom needed to do was bring him to the cannons to weaken him and then knock him out. Why did he broadcast this to the world? Why would he let the FF help him? Why did he need Victorious for this? Why use Galactus at all if Latveria is so small and Doom just has power cosmic already considering he empowered VICTORIOUS.

    __________________________________________________ ____________

    This whole arc is shaping up to be an extremely dumb showing for both the FF and Doom. D-

    Dan what the Hell I know you can do better than this.
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