Let's Try Again: Tracking the 52 Worlds (and Beyond!)

[AlexanderLuthor]

I am wondering how Morrison's "big ideas" fit with Geoff Johns' in the DC architectural structure. They both have significant pull, but sometimes it seems like Morrison is the idea man while Johns is the architect. I don't know.

If I am understanding Johns' Blackest Night and Brightest Day portions of his Green Lantern runs, Johns effectively merged the Green Lantern mythos into the Judeo-Christian understanding of the universe. (I am not saying that Johns is a theologian, just that he's a writer who decided to borrow from Biblical mythology.) Biblical imagery had been present in the DCU since at least the 1980s, and we've long understood that God exists, that Jesus Christ existed (though we don't talk about him much), the Phantom Stranger might have been an angel, the Spectre definitely was an angel, heaven exists, etc. Still, all this imagery seemed to exist either alongside all the other stuff, or else we never really talked about it. God was probably superior to the New Gods (unless you talk to someone like John Byrne, who probably saw God as subordinate to them).

Anyway, Johns took all this further and implied that the Lanterns were all derived from Judeo-Christianity as well. The White Lantern entity was definitely evocative of God (though not explicit); the red energy came from Cain's murder of Abel; the blue hope came after Noah's flood; the indigo compassion came after Jesus' sacrifice; and so on. Oh, Johns wasn't very explicit about it, but there was really no other mythology he could have been borrowing from. It was about as subtle as the Phantom Stranger issue where they revealed that he betrayed his friend for 30 pieces of silver.

What I'm not clear on is where all this ties with what Morrison is doing. Given that heaven is now one of many spheres in the realm of the gods, it seems that DC puts Judeo-Christianity on the same plane and hierarchical level as the New Gods and any other mythology. That's...certainly at odds with contemporary theology, but it's fiction, so we have little room to complain if we're so inclined. The reason why this all throws me, though, is that the Source Wall is now portrayed as a giant rainbow at the edge of the white universe. My first reaction on seeing the map was to wonder if that was now where the Lantern energies came from. But then, this would suggest that the Lantern powers do not come from heaven, or heaven's intervention, as Johns seemed to be implying.

I don't know if these things fit together or not. It could be that Johns has his ideas and Morrison has his, and we're not supposed to worry about it. The "grand ideas" in Final Crisis had little bearing on Blackest Night, even though ramifications from one hit the other. If Johns and Morrison are incompatible, it's probably because they're operating at entirely different levels of storytelling.

I see where you are coming from, but I think the flaw in your thinking is that the Lantern colors are based primarily on theological concepts. I like Johns, but I don't think he gets quite that deep. It's far more likely that he just picked colors that people in the Western world identify with emotions. Red for rage, yellow for fear, pink for love often show up as representative of emotions across media. Now you might have a point that the reason we associate those colors with certain emotions ultimately comes from the Judeo-Christian reasons you ascribe, but they are so ingrained in our culture now that I doubt that Johns primary source was religion

[Buried Alien]

While we're on the topic, does anyone know which Earth that (Alex) Ross's JUSTICE (and those four oversized holiday-themed books he did) takes place on? That universe resembled the Pre-COIE Earth-One, except the Marvels were also a part of it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Milton Fine]

There's a Dino-Cop on Earth-44, which is in the "evil" quadrant of the map. It's also on the opposite side of the map from Earth-26, which is the happy cartoony animal Earth. So I wonder if Earth-44 is -26's opposite: the latter is full of happy ridiculous animals, so the former will be full of realistic, gritty predators.

I hope it is more realistic...there was a great book by Harry Harrison called West of Eden that a Saurian society and it was pretty alien. I don't think Morrison will go that far...but I look forward to that earth.

[Milton Fine]

Earth-44, home of Dino-Cop and other dinosaurs with human-like intelligence, should make you happy, Milton.

That does sound good...I always figured in a multiverse that there would be a few societies where non humanoid life thrived.

[Jody Garland]

While we're on the topic, does anyone know which Earth that (Alex) Ross's JUSTICE (and those four oversized holiday-themed books he did) takes place on? That universe resembled the Pre-COIE Earth-One, except the Marvels were also a part of it.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I've always thought of them as the Silver Age to the Kingdom Come world. I doubt it'll ever be officially said, but it certainly makes sense.

[K. Jones]

I see where you are coming from, but I think the flaw in your thinking is that the Lantern colors are based primarily on theological concepts. I like Johns, but I don't think he gets quite that deep. It's far more likely that he just picked colors that people in the Western world identify with emotions. Red for rage, yellow for fear, pink for love often show up as representative of emotions across media. Now you might have a point that the reason we associate those colors with certain emotions ultimately comes from the Judeo-Christian reasons you ascribe, but they are so ingrained in our culture now that I doubt that Johns primary source was religion

My recent re-read of Final Crisis can maybe help - Morrison certainly mentioned that it was the tremendous power of the passions and emotions of the tiny little living beings in the germ-worlds that were powerful enough to alter higher planes of existence.

The Green Lantern energies and their derivatives are part of the structure of the Prime-Earth Universe. As we've seen a little from Earth-2 - other Universes have their own versions of that spectrum for will-powered weapons to tap into. These represent germ creatures being able to tap into those fundamental forces within the rules of their Universes, and are ultimately "part" of the individual universe and its rules.

As for whether or not they're confined there, we can't be sure. Kyle seems to have just discovered that emotions themselves come from beyond the Source Wall.

[resipsaloquitur]

I see where you are coming from, but I think the flaw in your thinking is that the Lantern colors are based primarily on theological concepts. I like Johns, but I don't think he gets quite that deep. It's far more likely that he just picked colors that people in the Western world identify with emotions. Red for rage, yellow for fear, pink for love often show up as representative of emotions across media. Now you might have a point that the reason we associate those colors with certain emotions ultimately comes from the Judeo-Christian reasons you ascribe, but they are so ingrained in our culture now that I doubt that Johns primary source was religion

I don't think that's quite what I was getting at. Yes, I think Johns picked the colors based on what we associate them with (although the yellow and violet colors already existed before Johns got to them). I think he later decided to get "cute" and assign them to Biblical origins. It wasn't a bad move given that DCU has ingrained Judeo-Christian lore for over two decades into its history

Now that Johns has done it, though, I want to know how it fits into Morrison's larger picture.

[resipsaloquitur]

I've always thought of them as the Silver Age to the Kingdom Come world. I doubt it'll ever be officially said, but it certainly makes sense.

Kingdom Come was based heavily on the DCU of its day, though--the mid 1990s. This got even blurrier when the post-Kingdom Come DCU started to incorporate a lot of KC's elements, like introducing the Brain Trust, Jakeem Thunder, and Wonder Woman's armor. Oh, and Magog.

I've personally hoped that if the pre-Flashpoint universe exists anywhere, it's in the past of the Kingdom Come universe if it still exists on Earth-23.

Justice was really based on "Super Friends." I do wonder if the DCAU Earth (assuming it's Earth-12) has changed every time there was a Crisis, and that pre-Crisis, it was Super Friends.

[Thor-Ul]

Kingdom Come was based heavily on the DCU of its day, though--the mid 1990s. This got even blurrier when the post-Kingdom Come DCU started to incorporate a lot of KC's elements, like introducing the Brain Trust, Jakeem Thunder, and Wonder Woman's armor. Oh, and Magog.

I've personally hoped that if the pre-Flashpoint universe exists anywhere, it's in the past of the Kingdom Come universe if it still exists on Earth-23.

Justice was really based on "Super Friends." I do wonder if the DCAU Earth (assuming it's Earth-12) has changed every time there was a Crisis, and that pre-Crisis, it was Super Friends.

KC was earth-22 Pre-Flashpoint. And it's true about the changes of earth-12. But always after every crisis the DC editorial post fails in give to the readers clear information.
Damn, I suppose than if e-44 is the home of Dino-cop, I will miss the chance of see the robotic Justice League. The game designers did a good job with the worlds concepts. And it will be more clear if the worlds of the DCU (Or is DCM?) could keep the same numeration from media to media.
If we talk about what we want to see, I wanted to see again the Love Syndicate of Dreamworld. My bet still is on earth-47.
But as Morrison said than some earths are inspired by some elseworlds with added elements, like the Justice Riders one, I wish there is one earth with amalgamated versions of the main earth characters: the Speeding bullets earth, with Superbat, Shazamazon and QuantumStorm.

[Myskin]

Am I the only one who found it funny that the grim "Soviet Earth" is in the "good" quadrant? I wonder if it refelcts Morrison's Socialistic views, or if he consider "Red Son" a good story because he contributed to it.

[Jody Garland]

Doesn't the story end in utopia such and such many hundred years after the 20th century? I figured it was in reference to that, not necessarily Grant's political views.

[Myskin]

Doesn't the story end in utopia such and such many hundred years after the 20th century? I figured it was in reference to that, not necessarily Grant's political views.

Well, it ends in utopia which later brings to the end of the world. It is not exactly a happy ending.

[Jody Garland]

Fair enough, I haven't actually gotten to read Red Son yet. Looking at the map again, though, I did notice its opposite the Millerworld, which makes sense, given DKR's Superman.

Also, I really like the idea of adding Quantum Storm to the Speeding Bullets world. I liked a lot of the throwaway characters in Countdown Arena. It was a fun, if mindless, mini.

[Myskin]

Are we talking about "opposite" or "symmetrical" earths? That is: should we take as a point of reference the "Y Axis" or the centre (House of Heroes)?
We already know that Earth-20 is at war with Earth-40, and in fact they are opposite (using the House of Heroes as the point of reference).
But, if we keep using this system, we can't say that Earth-30 (Red Son) is the opposite of Earth-31 (DKR), they are just symmetrical. And Earth-26 (cartoon world) is not the opposite of Earth-44 (Dino-Cop). They are just symmetrical worlds.

If we use the "center" reference, the opposite of Earth-30 is Earth-24 (a ? earth) and the opposite of Earth-31 is Earth-26 (another ? earth). The opposite of Earth-26 is Earth-39 (do we know something about it?) The opposite of Earth-47 (the "hippy" world, maybe) is Earth-45 (the Trademark earth of Superdoom), which IMHO makes sense. But I can't understand why Earth-44 (Dino-cop) is the opposite of Earth-8 (Marvel Earth).


Nope. Sorry, the opposite of Earth-45 is Earth-16. Ok, I don't undertand that.

[Flash Gordon]

Well, it ends in utopia which later brings to the end of the world. It is not exactly a happy ending.

The ending isn't meant to be "grim" though. It's a throwback to one of Siegel&Shuster's original ideas for SUPERMAN's origin, before they came up with the "doomed planet Krypton".