Ashley Barton (Spider-Woman from Earth-807128) Appreciation (2019)

[Jonathangoop1811]

Sajani Jaffrey or Michelle Gonzales could had been the mother too.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Sajani Jaffrey or Michelle Gonzales could had been the mother too.

Neither of them are African-American.

[Digifiend]

Riri Williams wasn't invented yet when Old Man Logan came out. And she's too young...and canonically Peter as is apparent when he gets appalled at Ock checking out college girls in his body and so on, is quite turned off by girls who aren't at the least his age.

My pick is Prowler's wife, Mindy MacPherson, who maybe turned to Peter after Hobie Brown died and so on.

Yeah, Riri is 15 - that's 13 years younger than Peter. Also, we've already seen a possible future, and it doesn't involve marriage and kids. Is she even heterosexual? Viv Vision in Champions seems to think not.

Carlie's blonde, so Spider-Chan is right that it can't be her.

[MajorHoy]

Neither of them are African-American.

These days, would that even be necessary? Can't it be that somewhere in their recent past one of their parents/grandparents could have been, but the genetic trait did not appear as obvious with Sajani Jaffrey or Michelle Gonzales?

[Spider-Chan]

Riri Williams wasn't invented yet when Old Man Logan came out. And she's too young...and canonically Peter as is apparent when he gets appalled at Ock checking out college girls in his body and so on, is quite turned off by girls who aren't at the least his age.

Huh, you know what, I've just had a idea.

I've been reading Cloak & Dagger stuff lately, and I was pretty shocked that they were more or less trying to pair Peter and Tandy. Since the moment he saw her he said she was the most beautiful woman he's ever seen. He lets her remove his mask and they make out. It's so odd. Add to that that Tandy was 16 and Peter was already out of college, meaning he was a grown ass man.

So new theory: Tonya's grandparents are Cloak and Dagger. They had a child and the Peter of this universe has more in common with the Assassin Spider-Man, with a "can't let go the past" kinda attitude, so he almost instantly falls for their daughter, despite the huge age difference. Add to that, later Hawkeye married their daughter, and you have a universe where this seems to be common (?).

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I've been reading Cloak & Dagger stuff lately, and I was pretty shocked that they were more or less trying to pair Peter and Tandy. Since the moment he saw her he said she was the most beautiful woman he's ever seen. He lets her remove his mask and they make out. It's so odd. Add to that that Tandy was 16 and Peter was already out of college, meaning he was a grown ass man.

This is the early stories? I will note that the writer Bill Mantlo who created Cloak and Dagger wanted to take Spider-Man into a more...weird shall we say...direction. He famous tried to pitch a story to his bosses about having Felicia Hardy give birth to Peter's child out of wedlock only to be vetoed at every turn.

That stuff is a lapse, and writer error, and a rare one but generally Peter does go for his girls his age.

So new theory: Tonya's grandparents are Cloak and Dagger. They had a child and the Peter of this universe has more in common with the Assassin Spider-Man, with a "can't let go the past" kinda attitude, so he almost instantly falls for their daughter, despite the huge age difference. Add to that, later Hawkeye married their daughter, and you have a universe where this seems to be common (?).

At this point my fear is we are doing Mark Millar's work for him. I don't think he put any thought or deep cut in any of this.

I suppose he thought Spider's man descendant being black and a villainess was edgy...which is dubious if you think about it. Spider-Man's POC descendant being a criminal, yeah that's the right message and optics to put across.

But look, this topic is about Ashley Barton as a character. Let's discuss that and this speculation about who Spider-Man's end-girl is in this verse and so on, is not really interesting and germane.

[Huntsman Spider]

This is the early stories? I will note that the writer Bill Mantlo who created Cloak and Dagger wanted to take Spider-Man into a more...weird shall we say...direction. He famous tried to pitch a story to his bosses about having Felicia Hardy give birth to Peter's child out of wedlock only to be vetoed at every turn.

That stuff is a lapse, and writer error, and a rare one but generally Peter does go for his girls his age.



At this point my fear is we are doing Mark Millar's work for him. I don't think he put any thought or deep cut in any of this.

I suppose he thought Spider's man descendant being black and a villainess was edgy...which is dubious if you think about it. Spider-Man's POC descendant being a criminal, yeah that's the right message and optics to put across.

But look, this topic is about Ashley Barton as a character. Let's discuss that and this speculation about who Spider-Man's end-girl is in this verse and so on, is not really interesting and germane.

That's Mark Millar in a nutshell, I've come to realize. He has some good ideas here and there, but by and large, he's in it to be as "edgy" and "shocking" as he can get away with, and when you have an editor that lets him get away with it . . . see Ultimates and Ultimate Avengers (the comic, not the animated movies), or even his creator-owned stuff where he doesn't have to answer to editors (I would think).

[Kurolegacy]

Not gonna lie, Spider-Geddon got me more interested in Ashley. Spider-Force presented a lot more to her character than we had gotten in the past, presenting her in more depth and I’d like to see more of her. It’s one thing that makes the fact that when they gave OML a solo that they placed him in 616 because it would have been great to see how he would handle Ashley. Not only did she seem to have been somewhat inspired by the first Spider-Verse but I don’t think Logan would kill her out of his friendship with Clint and Peter. If anyone could help straighten her up, it’d be the guy who’s had more daughter figures/sidekicks than the rest.

[Sectal]

Couldn’t ashley’s Grandmother be misty knight? Black, Peter’s age, and similarly tough

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Couldn’t ashley’s Grandmother be misty knight? Black, Peter’s age, and similarly tough

It's getting creepy trying to find black female characters, Peter's age, single and available in the Marvel Universe. I mean Monica Rambeau made her debut in an ASM Annual. Is she Ashley Barton's grandma now because she is tangentially connected to it.

The most significant fact about Ashley Barton is that she's a villainess and supposedly Peter's grand-daughter. And to me she feels random in that story.

In Old Man Logan, Captain America loses and is defeated by Red Skull who can't get over his fixation on his enemy and still wears his costume. A version of the Kingpin murders Daredevil and Punisher for s--ts and giggles. Wolverine fights the Hulk. In those cases, the story is at least making a dark emotional push about the heroes and their fates and it's connected to their fates. Cap/America and Kingpin/Daredevil/Punisher have some connection to another. And Wolverine made his debut fighting the Hulk, which Millar takes to...not "next-level" but "sub-level".

If you are going to have a Spider-Person in OML and she's a villainess, manipulator who undermines her Dad, what is being communicated there.

[Kurolegacy]

It's getting creepy trying to find black female characters, Peter's age, single and available in the Marvel Universe. I mean Monica Rambeau made her debut in an ASM Annual. Is she Ashley Barton's grandma now because she is tangentially connected to it.

The most significant fact about Ashley Barton is that she's a villainess and supposedly Peter's grand-daughter. And to me she feels random in that story.

In Old Man Logan, Captain America loses and is defeated by Red Skull who can't get over his fixation on his enemy and still wears his costume. A version of the Kingpin murders Daredevil and Punisher for s--ts and giggles. Wolverine fights the Hulk. In those cases, the story is at least making a dark emotional push about the heroes and their fates and it's connected to their fates. Cap/America and Kingpin/Daredevil/Punisher have some connection to another. And Wolverine made his debut fighting the Hulk, which Millar takes to...not "next-level" but "sub-level".

If you are going to have a Spider-Person in OML and she's a villainess, manipulator who undermines her Dad, what is being communicated there.

Think that’s creepy, how’s about the fact that Clint married and had a daughter with someone young enough to have not even been born at the time of the super villain uprising? That means that the age difference between Clint and Tanya would have to be over 30 years.

Also when it comes to Ashley, it’s hard to say whether she’s a villain or not. At very least we know that she has killed both by Spider-Geddon and this story and her goal was to overthrow the Kingpin. She’s a product of the world she lives in but still has great respect for her grandfather to the point of taking on his image. The fact that she went after Clint right after, sure she’s certainly not pure by a long shot but from what we’ve seen, there’s no love lost from her for Clint since he was basically never there for her anyway so once she got the power, she tried to make an example of him. Who knows how she ran the territory beyond that though.

[MajorHoy]

Think that’s creepy, how’s about the fact that Clint married and had a daughter with someone young enough to have not even been born at the time of the super villain uprising? That means that the age difference between Clint and Tanya would have to be over 30 years.

Clint may be more mature physically, but his mental/emotional status is a waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay different story, apparently no matter what Earth he's on!

Also when it comes to Ashley, it’s hard to say whether she’s a villain or not. At very least we know that she has killed both by Spider-Geddon and this story and her goal was to overthrow the Kingpin. She’s a product of the world she lives in but still has great respect for her grandfather to the point of taking on his image. The fact that she went after Clint right after, sure she’s certainly not pure by a long shot but from what we’ve seen, there’s no love lost from her for Clint . . .

Clint seems to have had that effect on many women he's ever dealt with.

Just sayin' . . .