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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Its a creative idea, but I wouldn't have liked it. I absolutely loathed how they did Rebirth in the beginning with Superman in a strange world, and this would have been incredibly similar in idea. These are the types of things that are fun for imaginary tales but not something I want as a canon status quo. In fact, like Rebirth, had this been done I imagine they would have very likely done their own version of a "Superman Reborn" not long after the Crisis to get rid of the idea and make him a proper denizen of the Earth.
    I agree. To me, a critical part of Superman is that he is from another world, but raised in ours as one of us. While conscious that his powers (and the attendant responsibilities that he feels they impose on him) separate him from us, Superman sees himself as one of us. It explains a lot about why he maintains Clark's identity, and why he believes that we can be more. That doesn't work as well if he arrives as an adult, no matter how similar the world seems to his own.

  2. #17
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    I can see the appeal to it, and it might've avoided a lot of the less desirable changes that the 86 reboot brought on. It could've added to Clark's legend; the survivor of a dead universe, not just a dead world. Someone so tough that not even total universal decimation could stop him. Watching him build a new life would've added some fun wrinkles to the secret identity; Clark Kent pretending to be Clark Kent.

    But that would've gone pretty hard against the attempt to simplify and streamline the DCU timeline, and it would leave writers either unable to dip back into Clark's younger days or force them to keep pulling "survivors" from pre-Crisis into the main canon, which would've not only made Clark's situation less unique and special, but broken the purpose of the Crisis reboot.

    I think it's probably best if Power Girl is the one to retain the "multiversal survivor/refugee" elements to her origin. There's just too much riding on Clark's shoulders in the DCU for it to work easily. At least when the idea is to streamline the history.

    I thought it was an interesting idea with Rebirth, but I've come to realize that it'd likely just be a complication that wouldn't serve Clark or his mythology in practical application.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Arguably, that idea was kinda 'adapted' with Superman Reborn, with the Post-COIE Superman taking over from the New 52 Superman after the latter's death.

    Now, hypothetically, if they did go down that route back in 1986, I'd contend that they'd eventually have to find a way to make it work in the context of the new continuity, much as they eventually had to in the case of 'Superdad'.

    Here's how I think it could have worked.

    COIE would have ended with Kal-El dying. Following the battle at the Dawn of Time and the merging of earths, the older Lois of Earth 2 ceases to exist. Kal L then gets rid of the old-age makeup and grey hair and takes his place as the Superman of this new earth. He initially believes that he is simply impersonating the real Superman of this earth. The first few issues after COIE would have Kal L settling into his 'new' life. Initially, he finds it a bit strange to be interacting with a younger Lois Lane who seems to be interested in him romantically. Or to have to contend with a new younger bald Lex Luthor who's a corporate mogul seemingly beyond the law. And other newer versions of his old enemies, as well as new enemies. Not to mention, being a member of the Justice League. But he soon finds that things are getting a little strange. He looks up the old records and finds that there are reports of Superman being around in the 1940's, fighting alongside the JSA, even on this earth.

    This would lead in to the Man of Steel miniseries. The framing device will be Kal L visiting the Fortress of Solitude - a new version in the Arctic reminiscent of the one from the Movie. Similar to what we eventually got in Rebirth, Kelex analyzes him and the timeline and explains to him his history following the Crisis.

    In the new reality, Kal L arrived on earth in the 1910's and was raised by Johnathan and Martha Kent. Following their deaths, in 1938, he made his debut as Superman. He worked at the Daily Star newspaper and Editor George Taylor. During the 1940's he was an honorary member of the Justice Society of America. In 1951, the JSA disbanded. Superman remained the only major active superhero for a while, going on increasingly weird and whimsical adventures. But he ultimately decided to quit. Maybe he decided that the world needed a chance to evolve on its own without interference from superheroes. Maybe he felt that he just needed to get away from it all, especially the publicity of being Superman. Maybe he decided he'd be more effectively if he helped out from the shadows.

    So Superman disappeared, and at some point, Clark Kent, now Editor-in-Chief of the Daily Planet, quit. Clark traveled the world, probably saving people secretely. He struggles to come to grips with his immortality, which sets him apart even further from the rest of humanity. Maybe he instinctively feels that there's something, or someone missing in his life. He moved back to Smallville at one point, pretending to either be the son of Clark Kent, or some other distant relative of the Kent family also named Clark. He befriended Lana Lang and Pete Ross, both probably related to kids he grew up with. Maybe he confides in them, or in Lana at any rate. He possibly pursues a relationship with her but doubts if it can possibly work out between them, given how much older he is chronologically and the fact that he's not sure he can be tied down to life in Smallville after all.

    So he leaves again, maybe travels for a bit, and then returns to his old city, Metropolis. And that's when a crashing space-plan causes him to reveal himself to the world again. He rescues Lois Lane and in that moment, he feels like she's the one he's been waiting for all his life. He also realizes that now that the genie is out of the bottle again, maybe its time to stop running from his purpose. So he becomes Superman again. The world has only heard vague rumors and stories, and seen old newspaper articles and newsreel footage of the Superman from the 40's, so they don't now if its the same man or his son. But they embrace him nonetheless, and a new era of heroism begins.

    We then see Clark and Lois gradually get closer over the next few years, and Superman fight various foes. He also comes into conflict with Lex Luthor, the son of Alexei Luthor, his old arch-nemesis. When he first meets Batman, he again gets a strange feeling of deja vu and is a bit shocked by Batman's initial hostility towards him. But he remains convinced that they are meant to be friends and close allies and works hard to build that relationship.

    In the present-day, after reviewing these records, Kal-L realizes that he now is the Superman of this earth, and his history is intact. But he's puzzled by why he remembers marrying Lois and spending decades with her, or why he remembers working alongside Batman in the JSA. Kelex tells him that the Crisis upset time and space and that what he's remembering are 'echoes' of 'Elseworlds'...events that could have happened but never did, at least not in this reality.

    Superman is now able to move on with his life, and he's determined, based on the vague memories he still retains of a reality where he met Lois in 1938 and eventually married her, to make the most of his relationship with Lois in the here and now.
    One thing I do like about your solution is the "settling in" aspect, as Kal-L's memories slowly assimilate the slowly congealing new reality. A nice twist might be to have the enlightenment accidentally provided by Mister Mxyzptlk, in the course of trying to torment Kal-L.

    TBH, I always thought that preserving Superman's roots would have been nice (if problematic), but that where DC really missed the boat was in scrapping Wonder Woman's Golden Age heritage. They'd closed her post-Golden Age story, the original was ideally placed to serve as a continuity player, it would have avoided multiple, messy retcons, and it could have given her an importance in the post-Crisis world she'd never fully enjoyed in spite of being one of DC's most successful characters over the decades. That, though, I suppose, belongs to another forum.

  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    One thing I do like about your solution is the "settling in" aspect, as Kal-L's memories slowly assimilate the slowly congealing new reality. A nice twist might be to have the enlightenment accidentally provided by Mister Mxyzptlk, in the course of trying to torment Kal-L.

    TBH, I always thought that preserving Superman's roots would have been nice (if problematic), but that where DC really missed the boat was in scrapping Wonder Woman's Golden Age heritage. They'd closed her post-Golden Age story, the original was ideally placed to serve as a continuity player, it would have avoided multiple, messy retcons, and it could have given her an importance in the post-Crisis world she'd never fully enjoyed in spite of being one of DC's most successful characters over the decades. That, though, I suppose, belongs to another forum.
    While I think there are good arguements either way for preserving Golden Age Superman and Wonder Woman (and their relationships with Batman, Lois, Jimmy etc are the biggest difficulties there), I think it is inarguable that retconing out E1 Superman's time as Superboy and Wonder Woman's Golden Age and Silver Age/Bronze Age history were huge disservices to the characters and the fandom and that one of the (few?) positives of Infinite Crisis was returning most of that (while preserving Hipppolyta as the GA WW) back to continuity. Incidently, given that the SA/BA WW died during CoIE, having Donna or Lyta as the Modern!Wonder Woman would have made as much - if not more - sense than what they went with.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I can see the appeal to it, and it might've avoided a lot of the less desirable changes that the 86 reboot brought on. It could've added to Clark's legend; the survivor of a dead universe, not just a dead world. Someone so tough that not even total universal decimation could stop him. Watching him build a new life would've added some fun wrinkles to the secret identity; Clark Kent pretending to be Clark Kent.

    But that would've gone pretty hard against the attempt to simplify and streamline the DCU timeline, and it would leave writers either unable to dip back into Clark's younger days or force them to keep pulling "survivors" from pre-Crisis into the main canon, which would've not only made Clark's situation less unique and special, but broken the purpose of the Crisis reboot.

    I think it's probably best if Power Girl is the one to retain the "multiversal survivor/refugee" elements to her origin. There's just too much riding on Clark's shoulders in the DCU for it to work easily. At least when the idea is to streamline the history.

    I thought it was an interesting idea with Rebirth, but I've come to realize that it'd likely just be a complication that wouldn't serve Clark or his mythology in practical application.
    That aspect of her was what made me interested in her character
    The last issue of Power Trip is an all-time favorite of mine because of it acknowledging her pre-crisis heritage, and paying homage to her past history

    That's why I am sad she dissappeared following Flashpoint, which practically erased her from story, again

  6. #21
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    She was around after Flashpoint. I guess she never really caught on, but she made appearances and iirc starred in the Earth 2 World's Finest.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    She was around after Flashpoint. I guess she never really caught on, but she made appearances and iirc starred in the Earth 2 World's Finest.
    Her new52 E2 counterpart appeared, not her herself

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMaker1610 View Post
    Her new52 E2 counterpart appeared, not her herself
    The new 52 Power Girl was the same character as the Pre-Flashpoint version. The same way that the new 52 JLA were the same characters, just with their histories meddled with.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Clark View Post
    The new 52 Power Girl was the same character as the Pre-Flashpoint version. The same way that the new 52 JLA were the same characters, just with their histories meddled with.
    Well...that part is a little complicated.

    Technically, there was a Multiverse in existence when Flashpoint hit Earth 0, and the changes reverberated outwards and affected the other earths as well. By that logic, the New 52 Power Girl might be an altered version of the Post-COIE Earth 2 Power Girl who existed pre-Flashpoint as a distinct entity from the Pre-COIE Earth 2 Power Girl who was a survivor of the original crisis.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bat39 View Post
    Well...that part is a little complicated.

    Technically, there was a Multiverse in existence when Flashpoint hit Earth 0, and the changes reverberated outwards and affected the other earths as well. By that logic, the New 52 Power Girl might be an altered version of the Post-COIE Earth 2 Power Girl who existed pre-Flashpoint as a distinct entity from the Pre-COIE Earth 2 Power Girl who was a survivor of the original crisis.
    That's what I had in mind as well
    Man, I really miss pre-coie Power Girl

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