Rotten Tomatoes removes Want To See percentages for films not released yet.

[Forseti]

Oh come on now, bringing facts into the discussion is a low blow. It's not a fair fight if one of the parties has facts and the other only has hateful self-spun conjecture.

[Kintor]

You misinterpreted my point. I have seen many political movements come and go over the years and there is a pattern that they tend to follow. I was suggesting we will potentially see a more unified group emerging from this, potentially using more focused and targeted tactics, if (and this is a big if) the underlying ideology doesn’t get exposed as being mostly disaffected guys with nothing better to do.

I understand your point perfectly, you're trying to understand the return of populism with the limited tools you have at your disposal. Unfortunately, just because something has political consequences doesn't mean it's an ideologically motivated act. At best you could say that this movement is a rejection of ideology and that for that reason alone you'll never be able to defeat it by treating it like the cyclical movements of the late 20th century.

Still, everything old is new again, eventually. Since we're in a movie-centric thread perhaps some Shakespeare will give you a better idea of the primal forces you're up against:

The statements were not made as part of the of the marketing for Captain Marvel, nor was it a political campaign.

The statements were made at the Crystal and Lucy Awards which celebrates women in film, so of course she took that opportunity to be critical of representation of women in the industry she works in when it come to interviews and critics. Most of the speeches given at the awards were about feminist issues such as gender parity and the Metoo movement.

I'm sure you're aware that actors don't have the luxury of maintaining separate private and professional lives, everything they say in public is scrutinised and disseminated by the media. The careless words of many an actor have cost films greatly at the box office. But even actors aren't unique in this regard; public servants in many countries are forbidden to use social media; while even those in the corporate world must answer to their employers when what they say in a public starts to affect the bottom line.

It's no different for Brie Larson, her duty to Captain Marvel (the film) and her employer (Disney) should've made her show more restraint. If she could not avoid making controversial statements in that setting then she probably should've declined to appear at the Crystal and Lucy Awards until after Captain Marvel has finished its box office run. As it stands the situation stared by her statements quickly spiralled out of control and forced Disney to take harsh measures that only damage the company’s reputation.

[Username taken]

The statements were not made as part of the of the marketing for Captain Marvel, nor was it a political campaign.

The statements were made at the Crystal and Lucy Awards which celebrates women in film, so of course she took that opportunity to be critical of representation of women in the industry she works in when it come to interviews and critics. Most of the speeches given at the awards were about feminist issues such as gender parity and the Metoo movement.

Thanks for this.

I was actually just about to point out she never made any overtly political statements during the marketing of Captain Marvel.

[ed2962]

Exactly.

There was NOTHING divisive about Captain Marvel’s marketing.

The problem is there’s a very vocal group of people online that have been revealed to be very dishonest and are desperately trying to make money off some people that hold bigoted views. The youtubers that latched onto this are now looking very foolish and have lost a lot of credibility (that’s not to say they had any because I’ve always known these guys are simply making money off trending topics and probsbly don’t even believe what they themselves are saying). Nothing Brie Larson said was offensive, Marvel/Disney didn’t market the movie in a any controversial and frankly Brie Larson deserves a lot of credit for the way she’s handled herself in the face of the lies and slander.

The Rottentomatoes thing is frankly as stupid as the “Disney bought off theatres” line of thinking (anyone who even believes that Disney bought tickets for Captain Marvel across the entire globe probably needs to do some critical self examination).

Some of these guys have realized that they don't even have to make sense, just as long as they appear to be attacking Carol Danvers and SJW Marvel. Unfortunately it's working as some of them are doing multiple videos and are getting more and more hits.

[Forseti]

It's no different for Brie Larson, her duty to Captain Marvel (the film) and her employer (Disney) should've made her show more restraint. If she could not avoid making controversial statements in that setting then she probably should've declined to appear at the Crystal and Lucy Awards until after Captain Marvel has finished its box office run. As it stands the situation stared by her statements quickly spiralled out of control and forced Disney to take harsh measures that only damage the company’s reputation.

Just for the sake of clarity: what did Brie say that was controversial and what harsh measures did Disney take? I'd appreciate it if you could restrict yourself to facts.

[Username taken]

Some of these guys have realized that they don't even have to make sense, just as long as they appear to be attacking Carol Danvers and SJW Marvel. Unfortunately it's working as some of them are doing multiple videos and are getting more and more hits.

That's the thing about Youtube, it's all about the algorithm.

SJW, Marvel, Star Wars in one video title is guaranteed to get some hits. There's even some guys that have literally no subscribers but still get hits with popular key words.

That being said, going into the comments of some of these videos (and the like to dislike ratio), it does seem that there's some blow back against the lies and the conspiracy theories. It's one thing to have a problem with Brie Larson's comments but its another thing altogether to start making up stories and telling lies about the actress and the movie she's starring in.

[JKtheMac]

I understand your point perfectly, you're trying to understand the return of populism with the limited tools you have at your disposal. Unfortunately, just because something has political consequences doesn't mean it's an ideologically motivated act. At best you could say that this movement is a rejection of ideology and that for that reason alone you'll never be able to defeat it by treating it like the cyclical movements of the late 20th century.

Sure. They must be geniuses to hide their intellect this throughly. They clearly understand the 20th century about as much as they understand feminism.

Not only do I believe this was a misguided and somewhat naive political act, I find it hard to believe anyone would seek to pass it off as somehow justified or a natural reaction to the modern world. Apologise for them as much as you want, but apologising for something without credibility doesn’t help ones own credibility.

[JKtheMac]

That's the thing about Youtube, it's all about the algorithm.

SJW, Marvel, Star Wars in one video title is guaranteed to get some hits. There's even some guys that have literally no subscribers but still get hits with popular key words.

That being said, going into the comments of some of these videos (and the like to dislike ratio), it does seem that there's some blow back against the lies and the conspiracy theories. It's one thing to have a problem with Brie Larson's comments but its another thing altogether to start making up stories and telling lies about the actress and the movie she's starring in.

It would be interesting to know how many people have hit the not interested button on videos. That’s what I usually do when a trollish video pops up as a recommendation.

[Kusanagi]

It would be interesting to know how many people have hit the not interested button on videos. That’s what I usually do when a trollish video pops up as a recommendation.

Literally did that this morning. Watch a lot of gamer channels/comic channels so they'll inevitably pop up on my recommended list, but nothings forcing me to watch or care about their opinions. At this point I'd imagine they're mostly preaching to the choir.

[Kintor]

Sure. They must be geniuses to hide their intellect this throughly. They clearly understand the 20th century about as much as they understand feminism.

Not only do I believe this was a misguided and somewhat naive political act, I find it hard to believe anyone would seek to pass it off as somehow justified or a natural reaction to the modern world. Apologise for them as much as you want, but apologising for something without credibility doesn’t help ones own credibility.

The 20th century is over but you're still trying refight old battles as though nothing has changed. I can only assume you didn't watch the video I posted earlier, no love for the bard then? That's a shame, if you looked a little closer you might see our current situation has more in common with Ancient Rome then the tepid politics of the post-war 20th century. Captain Marvel is just one flashpoint, made possible by Brie Larsons controversial statements and Disney's heavy-handed marketing. It's the fading world of the legacy media struggling against a new age they couldn't possible hope to understand.

[JKtheMac]

The 20th century is over but you're still trying refight old battles as though nothing has changed. I can only assume you didn't watch the video I posted earlier, no love for the bard then? That's a shame, if you looked a little closer you might see our current situation has more in common with Ancient Rome then the tepid politics of the post-war 20th century. Captain Marvel is just one flashpoint, made possible by Brie Larsons controversial statements and Disney's heavy-handed marketing. It's the fading world of the legacy media struggling against a new age they couldn't possible hope to understand.

No. That is your perception of what I said. I have already pointed out you are wrong but you don’t want to hear that. Whether you believe it or not these supposedly ancient modes of thinking (and by that I mean the late 20th century not some idealised notion of Rome that never made any sense) dominate the modern discourse and any political movement wanting to pull itself out of mediocrity has to engage with that discourse at some point.

For better or worse every major political party around the world makes use of these forms of rhetoric and critical thinking, something that couldn't have been said in the actual 20th century. Where you seem to misunderstand me is you immediately assume I think this is somehow a good thing. I am merely making an observation.

[AJBopp]

Captain Marvel is just one flashpoint, made possible by Brie Larsons controversial statements and Disney's heavy-handed marketing. It's the fading world of the legacy media struggling against a new age they couldn't possible hope to understand.

This case would be much more credible if the slightest effort was made to substantiate the claim with an actual, defended example of what the hell is being talked about. Right now nothing is being said but baseless ignorance.

[Kintor]

No. That is your perception of what I said. I have already pointed out you are wrong but you don’t want to hear that. Whether you believe it or not these supposedly ancient modes of thinking (and by that I mean the late 20th century not some idealised notion of Rome that never made any sense) dominate the modern discourse and any political movement wanting to pull itself out of mediocrity has to engage with that discourse at some point.

You should have more respect for the past, at a genetic level people alive today are basically the same as the ancients, we are all suceptible to the same foibles and passions. It was only the conceit of the post-modernists in the 20th century who thought they could do one better then human nature with nought but semantic language and convulated ideological theories. Consider then the defense of Captain Marvel a huge overeaction on Disney's part, millions in astroturfing wasted and social conventions ruined for nothing, when the forces that gave rise to populism remain undiminished.

[Brian B]

The 20th century is over but you're still trying refight old battles as though nothing has changed. I can only assume you didn't watch the video I posted earlier, no love for the bard then? That's a shame, if you looked a little closer you might see our current situation has more in common with Ancient Rome then the tepid politics of the post-war 20th century. Captain Marvel is just one flashpoint, made possible by Brie Larsons controversial statements and Disney's heavy-handed marketing. It's the fading world of the legacy media struggling against a new age they couldn't possible hope to understand.

As near as I can tell Disney's entirely a 21st century corporation. They're #1 in the content business -- or maybe Google is, but Disney is #1 in original content they create. They're aiming higher with whatever IP they're going to serve up on their streaming service. The Fox takeover may serve them well, as the expansion of the MCU into more, profitable demographics will, too.

You're the one trying to draw some non-sensical analogy about a play more than a few centuries old, with footage from one of the more panned versions of that play as a movie version.

You can't find Brando's version? The '53 movie is so much better than '70's version. One can only imagine Heston's ego in making the decision to quit the Planet of the Apes franchise for dreck like that.

Meanwhile, the well-reviewed Captain Marvel easily cruises past $260 million (domestic) on a second weekend and the question now is how fast does it reach $400 million and can it hit $1 billion worldwide?

I think it'll come up a little shy on both counts, but we'll see. It's definitely a massive, blockbuster of a hit. Disney's got a big winner on its hands and in 6 weeks, Avengers hits the theaters. The MCU is like a printing press for money these days, and credit must go to all the creators and the IP itself.

[JKtheMac]

You should have more respect for the past, at a genetic level people alive today are basically the same as the ancients, we are all suceptible to the same foibles and passions. It was only the conceit of the post-modernists in the 20th century who thought they could do one better then human nature with nought but semantic language and convulated ideological theories. Consider then the defense of Captain Marvel a huge overeaction on Disney's part, millions in astroturfing wasted and social conventions ruined for nothing, when the forces that gave rise to populism remain undiminished.

You are not talking about the real past. You quoted a play from Shakespeare's Roman period, when he felt the need to couch his feelings about English history in the cloak of ancient Rome. Shakespeare was operating under a new regime where he was no longer allowed to openly express his opinions on the modern monarchy so he made his points at a remove instead. This has absolutely nothing to do with my point, so again I don't think you have grasped what I was trying to say.