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  1. #1
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    Default Wonder Woman #65 (Spoilers)

    Wonder Woman is convinced Themyscira is actually gone. She later goes to Nemesis's lair and gets bitten which drives her into a mad rage. She overcomes it and realizes that Nemesis is the one using Veronica Cale, and not the other way around. She goes to Cale and eventually gets through to her, vowing to help bring back Isadore. She and Aphrodite (on a sparkly flying swan no less) travel off in search of answers.

    * * * * *

    Honestly, I have to say... Wilson is sorta losing me. I'm so over the "Where's Themyscira?!" plotline that seems to happen in the Wonder Woman comics every other year. I love the amazons and Themyscira as the next fan, but I want to see the comics moving forward rather than backward.

    Beyond that, Wilson's ideas are fantastic, but the execution is lacking. I love Aphrodite, I love the Nemesis/Cale dynamic, I love the in-your-face current politics like the Cale speech about alternative media sources, I love the absurdism of the mythical creatures living amongst mortals, but the execution and pacing of the issues have been lacking.

    But I'm still really excited for the Giganta story coming in a few weeks!

  2. #2
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    I agree that the pacing is weird, but I like the overall direction the story is taking. I like that Nemesis is doing - well - what she does, that her impact is more than just a villain to fight. I like the hug, I like the politics, and I love the swan ship. Overall, I like it.

    What's confusing to me about the art is the inconsistency. The two pages of Diana entering Nemesis's lair have drama and tension, but the actual skirmish has neither. Some of the renderings of Diana flying are so fluid and some are so static. Aphrodite & Diana have a dozen different head shapes and collections of facial characteristics, but the overall panel layouts are nice and the two themes of overlapping panels and characters breaking out of panels are used in a manner that flows well. If the inks weren't credited to one person, I'd think there were multiple inkers involved, and often working on the same page. I'll still take Merino over what Nord was generally producing - I was so excited for him to start and generally disappointed in what he produced - but the art could be better.

  3. #3
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    I liked the issue, better than the first half. This is the eighth issue in the run, and I believe this is the one where Wilson said she started to feel comfortable with Diana's voice. I definitely think she was good in the resolution to the Cale conflict. It is just like Diana to go against what the goddess of grudges expects her to do and hug her nemesis instead and offer empathy. I also like that while Veronica called her off current "attack," I don't think she's magically redeemed or Diana's friend now. She still greatly dislikes her and will probably continue to be an antagonist, but she loves Izzy more. it might be interesting to see if Izzy is recovered but Cale still has a vendetta against Wonder Woman. How will Izzy react to that?

    I'm glad Diana crying was over in the first few pages and her resolve was strengthened. Her rage is completely understandable (as someone with anxiety, I wouldn't hold myself together that well in such a situation), but it could have been drawn out and I'm thankful it wasn't.

    Some drawbacks: Steve waiting around is kind of lame, and I'd like to now how Diana found Nemesis's lair.
    A little plus: I like that the magical swan Aphrodite summoned was transparent like the invisible plane!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    Honestly, I have to say... Wilson is sorta losing me. I'm so over the "Where's Themyscira?!" plotline that seems to happen in the Wonder Woman comics every other year. I love the amazons and Themyscira as the next fan, but I want to see the comics moving forward rather than backward.!
    I hear ya. It's an unfortunate consequence, IMO, of Rucka making it dramatically inaccessible, tying it in with Ares being off the board, and Robinson ignoring the Amazons for the most part. I think Wilson or whoever kind of has to make Themyscira's return kind of dramatic and not easy for Diana. It would seem kind of underwhelming if it was just "haha, just kidding you can go back home now" after the Lies/the Truth.

    But with her and Aprhodite leaving to find it now setting up the arc with her son, but knowing we have Giganta next issue, hopefully the journey to Themyscira is interesting and involves seeing a lot of surprising faces (from mythology and WW's own cast/villains) along the way.

  4. #4
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Was anyone else bothered by the goddess of love with magical glitter in her hair wearing a bikini around Diana's man unattended, while sowing seeds of descent in their relationship? I'm not too sure she's trustworthy.

    With a better artist this issue would have been a 5 out of 5, Willow has found Wonder Woman's voice and I like it!

    Nevertheless time spent on Diana's inner thoughts and doubt could have been about the goddess of the hunt's eye of the hunter gift allowing her to track Nemesis or something similar to that. Enjoyed the banter more than usual and the wonder hug felt natural and genuine. The language foreshadowing the journey implies it will be epic, here's hoping that's the case. I'm up for a good odyssey and intrigued about Isadore. Of course the Amazons returning will be golden!

  5. #5
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Also forgot to add, if Diana could find Nemesis so well why so much gloom doom and doubt about finding Themyscira? She obviously has a knack, or enough determination, that's why they went to great lengths to hide it from her in the first place.

  6. #6
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    I said last issue was the worst thus far and, well, it isn't anymore...I really do hope this run picks up soon.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  7. #7
    Incredible Member MarquisAsh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Also forgot to add, if Diana could find Nemesis so well why so much gloom doom and doubt about finding Themyscira? She obviously has a knack, or enough determination, that's why they went to great lengths to hide it from her in the first place.
    I doubt Diana is worried about anything. Steve isn’t phased by her.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    I'm of several minds of this one. One is that the art doesn't really manage to convey the action or the suspense needed, the faces feel inconsistent, and doesn't manage to convey the needed emotions. Compared to Nord's art, it feels prettier but also more lifeless. I really liked Merino's work in TWH, so have no idea what has happened here.

    Storywise it doesn't feel that interesting. Sure, Diana and Veronica Cale are in character, and Aphrodite is delightful, but there is really nothing that happened during the two latest issues that couldn't have been reasoned through by Diana and Aphrodite in order for them to decide to go on their own quest for Themyscira. No reason to involve Nemesis or Veronica Cale for that. It's not bad, but the storytelling feels more focused on hitting specific points rather than telling the journey.

    Perhaps it is because of the medical emergency that Wilson had in October last year? It probably put a wrench into her writing and polishing time, both during it and for some time afterwards? (Though I have little idea on the lead time for scripts in comics.)

    I really like that Aphrodite returns to her swan t-shirt once she decides to get going.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Joao's Avatar
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    Not bad but not that good. The hug was great and I got emotional but I think that's more because of Rucka's setting the stage than Wilson's narrative (it did seem kinda rushed, didn't it?).

    Also, another issue where the story doesn't seem to progress...

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I liked the cooldown hug but I agree that Wilson needs to start picking up the pace here.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    On the other hand, compared to Tom King's storytelling, the story gets along at a decent clip. I do think that the art issues are bringing down Wilson's run, together with majorly high expectations from our part.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  12. #12
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    After reading this two-parter, I have to ask if it the last three issues were necessary. To me, this felt like an extended interlude that was stretched to two issues. Considering the issue that preceded it, couldn't the Looney Tunes adventure and this (non)encounter with Nemesis and Cale been tightly told in a single issue?

    I did like the scenario that played out between Diana and Cale. It was a bit hokey, but I appreciated that the teeth gnashing was dialed down. I also appreciated Diana's determination to do something about her not knowing what happened to Themyscira and Olympus (it only took her three issues to decide).

    I did not like was the art. I really miss the proper use of a 9-panel storytelling technique. The splash pages and over-use of large panels (with mediocre art with thick ink lines) eat up so much storytelling space.

    I did not like the questionable clothing choice for Aphrodite (glad she went back to the swan t-shirt). I do not like GWW calling Nemesis the goddess of grudges--that's not accurate. If GWW is using Wiki to do her research, Nemesis' entry states: In early times the representations of Nemesis resembled Aphrodite, who sometimes bears the epithet Nemesis. (No citation is given.) Perhaps that might account for Aphrodite's questionable clothing choice. Maybe there's a connection between the two, especially when Diana's thoughts about a love that's curdled.

    I loved both covers (even the sword and shield). I thought both were beautifully done.

    jBn

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackBNimble View Post
    I did not like the questionable clothing choice for Aphrodite (glad she went back to the swan t-shirt). I do not like GWW calling Nemesis the goddess of grudges--that's not accurate. If GWW is using Wiki to do her research, Nemesis' entry states: In early times the representations of Nemesis resembled Aphrodite, who sometimes bears the epithet Nemesis. (No citation is given.) Perhaps that might account for Aphrodite's questionable clothing choice. Maybe there's a connection between the two, especially when Diana's thoughts about a love that's curdled.
    At a guess, Wilson is using Wikipedia to start her research. If she is anything like me, she likely found the Theoi Project quickly, which contains lots of quotations from primary sources and additional context.

    I discussed Nemesis in my revisiting Olympos thread before the mini-arc started. Sure, Wilson's depiction of Nemesis doesn't fit perfectly with the ancient Nemesis, but that started to shift towards jealousy already during Roman times. And the way Nemesis is drawn hearkens back to JMS's run back just before New 52.

    I liked Aphrodite's frequent clothing changes. The Power Girl bikini is maybe not something I want to see her in all the time, but for a single issue? It's fun and fine.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #14
    Incredible Member Slim Shady's Avatar
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    This was probably the best characterization of Wonder Woman so far. I liked everything about her here. Story wise, Idk, still not loving the pace and the actual story hasn't really grabbed me. Just feels like no issue yet has gotten above, not terrible/ok/decent.

    And lol at Aphrodite flaunting around in a busty bikini while Diana's not home.

  15. #15
    Incredible Member Slim Shady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    On the other hand, compared to Tom King's storytelling, the story gets along at a decent clip.
    Oh this is like old school super compressed comics compared to King.

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