Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[Cyke]

Who cares if Ward or Hydra were or were not Nazi's anyway? It's not like any of them are good people anyway so what's the point of the debate or trying to make a distinction? What am I missing? I still remember that ridiculous scene of Ward being HORRIFIED and sickened that Garret was killing government soldiers and crying/questioning that they weren't really with Hydra were they? This after he and Ward killed tons of people already. Just dumb.

I'm largely staying out of this debate specifically, but making distinctions into evil are important when it comes to defining villains. Someone like Lex Luthor and someone like Whitehall could be equally evil and maybe have a pissing contest to see who's wrought more damage, but one is way more rooted in historical trauma than the other, giving more context and thus believability. It's also why Magneto's appeal and longevity grew once his Auschwitz origin was established -- Kang the Conqueror has, numerically speaking, done far more damage than Magneto at his most evil, but Magneto resonates much more for the X-Men because of context, and why Kang's fought most heavyweights but fought the X-Men the least. The Joker and Red Skull are equally demented in their own ways but the Joker rebelled against Red Skull because his brand of evil was anti-American -- sure, it's a non-canonical crossover, but it illustrates the point that not all forms of evil are created equal, and that different types of evil require different approaches, even if all other things are factored equally.

Agents of SHIELD has been doing that these past few episodes with current events. It's not just to draw parallels and take swipes at the current administration, since you don't add those types of comments out of the blue without some sort of real-world impact motivating the writing. It provides a context to which the viewers can connect with. Even on a smaller scale, Radcliffe was selfishly evil, but he was horrified when he realized that AIDA's motives (and the Superior, for that matter) were different than his, even though their goals were mostly aligned, and it helped turn Radcliffe more sympathetic as a result.

[AndrewCrossett]

I would liken it more to Adam and Eve eating the apple. Prior to that they live in ignorant bliss but upon eating realize their own nakedness. So in this case the Darkhold made AIDA aware that she was not merely a tool or object but rather an enslaved sentient being.

But was she a sentient being before, or did the Darkhold make her that way?

And if the former, how did Radcliffe get the ability to create sentient life?

Seems like that's a pretty damn big thing, even in a superhero/sci-fi universe, and the show should be dealing with that question more.

[PЯOVOSҬ]

The A and I part of AIDA is Artificial Intelligence so if she is an AI is that not a sentient being?

[remydat]

But was she a sentient being before, or did the Darkhold make her that way?

And if the former, how did Radcliffe get the ability to create sentient life?

Seems like that's a pretty damn big thing, even in a superhero/sci-fi universe, and the show should be dealing with that question more.

I think that is unknowable right now. We really don't understand how consciousness arises so I suspect Radcliffe had no intent of making her sentient but was aiming for something more akin to say Jarvis. So if she was sentient before the Darkhold, I think it was more by accident just like life on earth seems more like our own consciousness appears to be a random accident unless of course you believe in God.

So I prefer to think she was sentient but unaware of that fact until the Darkhold was able to open her eyes to it. Mainly because I don't think she would become as attached to Fitz as she appears to have become if that was purely the influence of the Darkhold. Fitz already achieved his purpose as it relates to the Darkhold so her taking him with her seems to be genuinely because some part of her has a more personal attachment to him.

Either way, I hope they do explore it in more detail to clarify how much of this was AIDA and how much of it was the Darkhold.

[remydat]

The A and I part of AIDA is Artificial Intelligence so if she is an AI is that not a sentient being?

AI doesn't equate to sentience. The below would probably explain it better than I can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence

[PЯOVOSҬ]

AI doesn't equate to sentience. The below would probably explain it better than I can.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence

Self Awareness aspect then?

[Immortal Weapon]

The show has a good chance of being renewed for a 5th season
http://comicbook.com/marvel/2017/05/...ewed-season-5/

[hulahulk]

That's great news. This season has been pretty good.

[remydat]

Self Awareness aspect then?

Yes there is generally a distinction between AI and self awareness/sentience.

[90'sCartoonMan]

Man, that was quite the awakening for Fitz! Maybe being instrumental in defeating AIDA will help him through this.

Daisy should've just lied to Mack and told him his daughter is waiting in the other world. He'd probably be pissed, but at least he wouldn't be living a lie.

It must be pretty weird to take an extra lifetime's worth of memories back into the real world with you. Do you know how often the little, incidental things would **** with your memory? Like, you'd wake up one day and say to yourself, "where the hell is that coffee maker..." and after 2 hours of searching cabinets and drawers you'd think and go, "oh, I owned that in the Framework..."

I hope for their sake that the Framework memories fade over time.

I have to agree Trip would look very, very, hot as the Patriot.

I have to give kudos to the actor who portrays Fitz; I believe for a moment he would throw up.

Aida/Ophelia still reminds me of Hans Christian Anderson's original Snow Queen.

In what way does she remind you of the Snow Queen? And I would love to see Tripp decked out in Patriot gear.

[Jon Clark]

I briefly wondered if they weren't going to switch out Tripp and Mack. I half expected when Mack refused to return to the "real world" that Tripp would jump into the exit and somehow take over Mack's body (if only to give us a payoff to that whole "You could be the Patriot" scene without revisiting the Framework).

[Donald]

Since they're on the outside, can't they turn off Mack's hookup and bring him out (safely) that way?

[XPac]

Since they're on the outside, can't they turn off Mack's hookup and bring him out (safely) that way?

It seems possible since we've seen Aida wake up Radcliffe. But I think the issue is whether or not they should wake him up, if he's choosing to live in the framework instead.

[AndrewCrossett]

Well, the preview for this week's ep shows Mack still strapped in to his pod while water rises around his face. So pulling him out forcibly is going to be the only way. I wonder how that would look from inside the Framework. We saw that Madame Hydra was asleep/comatose when Aida was unhooked from the system. Would Mack simply vanish? Fall into a coma?

But it's probably moot because the other Framework people are (as far as we know) non-sentient. The simulation would probably just pause if there's no outside person interacting with it. That's only Mack and Radcliffe now, and Radcliffe isn't with Mack so that part of the simulation wouldn't keep running for his benefit.

Of course if Mack were to drown in the real world his Framework self would keep on keeping on, and probably wouldn't even know that his meat body was dead.

I wonder what happens to Madame Hydra now that Aida 2.0 is destroyed and Aida 3.0 likely has no interest in going back in. Does MH die, or continue on as a Framework-controlled person (an NPC being run by the DM)?

Framework Hydra is really in trouble now. They've lost Madame Hydra, the Doctor, their Chief of Security (Alistair) and their Chief of Operations (May) all at once.

My guess is that Mack will eventually realize he can't live a lie with false Hope, and will come to terms with leaving her behind. Gonna be rough, though. He and Fitz are both going to be really messed up for quite some time (if Fitz even survives).

[McMax]

Mack is going to leave the Framework because it's going to be destroyed by the AoS but before it happens they will go back in, mostly to see Brett Dalton and BJ Britt one last time.