Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[Carabas]

Remember Black Widow's little speech at the hearings at the end of Winter Soldier?

I could see that "You won't put us in jail, you need us" attitude not sitting well with people like AoS' Glenn Talbot and his sympathizers .

After all that has happend the US Government would not trust any SHIELD operative or ex SHIELD operative (other than Cap, who blew the lid off the thing himself).

And the Widow, who helped a lot.

And if you paid attention to the stuff Rhodey was saying to Stark in the restaurant scene in IM3, the US military didnt ever trust SHIELD all that much.

Well, when has anything American trusted anything from the UN?

I can't see them being happy about Stark plan to "Privatize world security" as Maria Hill put it.

On the other hand, America, including its military, has a long history of putting way too much faith in the private sector, so I don't think they'll have any problem with what Stark is doing.

[XPac]

So, that would mean Civil War in the MCU would be maybe Rhodey v. Everybody else? Or that all MCU characters basically start living out the core plot of the Hulk?

Just can't see CW working in the MCU.

Looking forward to the next ep so this thread can go back to MAoS.

Really Civil War would almost HAVE to be Iron Man vs Captain America. Otherwise it's just not Civil War.

If they were to go that route, I figure Stark privatizing security essentially would lead to the Age of Ultron. That will ultimately blow up in everyone's face, motivating the military to place the heroes under their direct supervision.

Stark, like in the comics, would go along with believing it's inevtiable and he's better off controlling it himself. Steve, especially coming off Winter Soldier, wouldn't be interested... and there is your Civil War.

Maybe the end result might even be the return of Shield. Heroes working with a group like them might be a compromise between them being completely indepenent and them being outright drafted into the military.

[General Nerditry]

If they ever do a Civil War story in the MCU, and I'm not saying I want them to, but if they do, they should wait until there's more than 5 heroes in the MCU.

[XPac]

If they ever do a Civil War story in the MCU, and I'm not saying I want them to, but if they do, they should wait until there's more than 5 heroes in the MCU.

So far we've got Iron Man, Iron Patriot, Hulk, Captain America, Falcon, Black Widow, Hawkeye, and Thor. We're adding Quicksilver and Wanda in the next one.

Theoretically there could be more since the Netflix stuff is supposed to be in a shared MU, but frankly I doubt they want to use TOO many since it would start getting expensive. I think just having Avengers vs Avengers might be enough.

[kalorama]

Aside from the prospect of a movie filled with a bunch of people with superpowers beating the crap out of each other in 3D and IMAX, I'm at a loss to understand this mini-mania for a cinematic Civil War., because the actual comic was pretty crappy. And if all people want is a big multi-character fight scene, there are probably lots of more interesting ways to engineer one than C.W.

[General Nerditry]

I hope they don't touch Civil War with a 10 foot pole unless it's for the express purpose of beating it to death.

[gwangung]

Aside from the prospect of a movie filled with a bunch of people with superpowers beating the crap out of each other in 3D and IMAX, I'm at a loss to understand this mini-mania for a cinematic Civil War., because the actual comic was pretty crappy.

Because you want to do an idea WELL, and not just throw an idea away because it was done poorly in the past (and I certainly think too many people are affected by the poor expression of the idea in the past).

Might be easier for me to ignore the poor execution, because I didn't read it--but the smaller size of the MCU would probably mean the execution would be better.

[kalorama]

Because you want to do an idea WELL, and not just throw an idea away because it was done poorly in the past (and I certainly think too many people are affected by the poor expression of the idea in the past).

Might be easier for me to ignore the poor execution, because I didn't read it--but the smaller size of the MCU would probably mean the execution would be better.

The poor execution had nothing to do with the size of the cast. It was a flawed idea that had no logical traction in the world that had existed in Marvel comics up to that point, and it has no more logical traction in the world as it exists in the MCU now. Basically, it was just a bad idea.

[XPac]

The poor execution had nothing to do with the size of the cast. It was a flawed idea that had no logical traction in the world that had existed in Marvel comics up to that point, and it has no more logical traction in the world as it exists in the MCU now. Basically, it was just a bad idea.

Funnily enough I believe it was Whedon that actually conceived the ending of Civil War.

But as far as logical traction in the MU... I think Winter Soldier already planted some of the seeds which could result in a Civil War situation. Steve being at odds with the government and so forth.

And if Avengers Age of Ultron plays out to some sort of catastrophy which at least indirectly can be blamed on Stark, that would further justify a scenario where the military and public might seek more direct accountability for the hero community.

I don't think they can do a direct translation of Civil War into the movies... but I certainly think they can bring a lot of those elements into it.

[saul_on_the_road_to_damascus]

We are way off topic here. We should keep this thread for agents of shield only.

[maczero]

Good points.

Now, Garrett's cell seems to be well run, but it seems more aligned with his own interests, so he's a maverick---got to be more than one of him, as well as the more disciplined ones that can be dominated by Strucker.

This makes me wonder if Garrett is simply going to sell all the toys he took from the fridge to the highest bidder. If he figures Pierce was the highest man on the Hydra totem pole and that Pierce dead, he may cut ties with Hydra and go totally freelance.

Ya mean like Garrett?

Yeah, a mixture of both might be fun. But not all gaudy super villains or such....just some interesting people....

I wouldn't mind seeing super villains. Marvel has plenty of D-listers that are never going to make it to the big screen. I say put 'em on the show.

So....where is the conflict here? What is the ideological divide that would pit ANY of these heroes against each other, or even against Nick Fury, SHIELD, or any other legitimate authority?

At this point there isn't. The Avengers saved New York (and the world) from an alien invasion. Iron Man stopped AIM and the "Ten Rings". Cap exposed Hydra. So at this point, the public has no reason to distrust superheroes.

What would cause distrust is the rise of vigilantism. I think this is what we'll see in the Netflix series. Heroes who aren't readily accepted by the public, who actively break the law. Maybe the actions of certain skull wearing anti-hero might start giving street level heroism a bad name. Anyway, I think this could work on a small scale. So no SHRA or Avengers showing up. However a storyline about combating New York vigilantes would work in my opinion. Code Blue could be the foot soldiers against NY's street level heroes.

[PretenderNX01]

Respectfully, I would suggest that your interpretation does not correspond with the Cap that CA:TWS showed us at all. He was perfectly willing to disagree with - and even walk out on - a government that he thought was disguising absolutism with freedom.

Cap walked away from SHIELD, the international body but not Uncle Sam. I didn't see him walk out on the government he believed in.

Stark, like in the comics, would go along with believing it's inevtiable and he's better off controlling it himself. Steve, especially coming off Winter Soldier, wouldn't be interested... and there is your Civil War.

I just don't see MCU Stark ever going along with the government on anything.
I think after WS we could maybe see Cap not liking the structure but it was more about secrets and lies and what was kept from him. If it were a transparent, everyone is recruited he could go with it, maybe later regretting it.

In the end i don't know if it would work. Maybe Stark is contracted by the military and goes mad with power and Cap rebels against him personally and the team splits but not sure about Civil War then. Oh well, good thing there's a new ep tonight to talk about. What will we do over hiatus?

[kalorama]

But as far as logical traction in the MU... I think Winter Soldier already planted some of the seeds which could result in a Civil War situation. Steve being at odds with the government and so forth.

Except there really is no "so forth." In order for it to be a "civil" war there has to be a split that divides a previously united body. And there's no one among the Avengers who would likely be all in on super-heroes signing up with the government, given the events of Winter Soldier (and AOS). The only character, in general, who might support it is Rhodey and, as far as we've seen, he doesn't even know any of the Avengers other than Stark. So it would basically be him fighting the Avengers. That still leaves about 2 hours and 25 minutes worth of movie to fill.

[Donald]

I think Winter Soldier already planted some of the seeds which could result in a Civil War situation. Steve being at odds with the government and so forth.

But in the end the government agreed with Steve. End of conflict.

We are way off topic here. We should keep this thread for agents of shield only.

Agreed.

[Ant-manic]

At this point there isn't. The Avengers saved New York (and the world) from an alien invasion. Iron Man stopped AIM and the "Ten Rings". Cap exposed Hydra. So at this point, the public has no reason to distrust superheroes.

New Yorkers witnessed the Avengers fighting aliens. but what about the rest of the world? i bet there are some saying that it was a false flag operation. and now that SHIELD was exposed as dirty, they might think that this was them cleaning up their own mess. the Ten Rings were headed up by an actor. Killian's body was incinerated. who knows how this stuff is being reported; keeping in mind that Hydra has probably infiltrated news organizations as well.