Agents of SHIELD (SPOILERS)

[remydat]

He didnt betray anyone, he was sent to do a mission which he completed flawlessly.
Fury could clearly see this and see how kick ass an agent he is and just get him to work for him because he knows how far Ward will go. And since suddenly in this last episode Ward was all, "tell me what to do master!" We got an easy setup for Ward to work under another master.

Yeah this is like saying an undercover cop betrayed a drug lord when the reality is that he was never loyal to said drug lord in the first place. What Ward did was obviously a shitty thing to do but he was never loyal to SHIELD in the first place and was simply feigning loyalty in order to use it against them.

[remydat]

I really hope Ward doesn't just 'rejoin the team' next season. I'd like to see him as a villain/enemy.

If I had to guess I would think he ends up as a sometimes villain sometimes ally with the latter most likely whenever Skye needs help/protection. I could see Flowers mindfucking him some more to get him to help her as well.

[PretenderNX01]

I really hope Fitz deals with unfortunate consequences, like brain damage and needing to relearn how to do simple things again. It'd be sad, but it'd be more realistic than him being totally fine from his ordeal after they said "he may never be the same again."

They seemed to be setting something up. All Jemma would say is "he's alive". I liked that someone had some physical consequences, it wasn't all too clean.

He's already stabbed them in the back once, so what incentive do they have to give him another shot?

Yeah, it's not like Widow double crossed The Avengers before joining the team in the movie. Whatever she's done in the MCU wasn't messing with Fury and is something she seemed to regret. Ward doesn't yet seem to regret anything so I don't think that's his future.

Only issue with the whole show: the team got away from last week's cliffhanger a bit too easy.

Other than Fitz?

So how long before Ward either busts loose, or becomes unavoidably necessary for a future op?

I picture a Silence of the Lambs scenario with Skye visiting him in jail to learn what he knows about her (assuming he got the info from Garret and Raina)

Man, that May/Ward fight was brutal! And I laughed for a good three minutes at Garrett's last scene.

When she nailed his foot to the ground! And she punched him in the throat because she was sick of him talking. So good.

I actually hope that we get to see some more of Triplett and what he's all about next season. Because while he's an interesting new character, he joined pretty late to the main cast and right now just feels like Ward's replacement.

Yeah, I'm hoping we get more info on his family. I hope he connects to the SSR and Agent Carter but maybe not. His grandfather was a Howling Comando, that's pretty cool.

Now as for a pretty big thing that felt smaller then it should have, Coulson now runs SHIELD of all things. That has huge ramifications for the future of MCU, especially what that could mean later in Avengers 2 or 3, especially with the Avengers thinking that Coulson is dead.

I don't know if SHIELD will even be shown in the MCU. It's need is kind of over, so it's now run by a guy they all think is dead. As much as the movies influence the TV show, they still want to keep the TV out of the movies. If you just watch the movies, Coulson died and SHIELD disbanded but if you want you can follow how they all went underground on TV, if you don't want- then the movies just go on with that all being ended.

They don't need to look past what he did for him to get redemption. It is fairly easy for a writer to set up a scenario whereby they are forced to seek Ward's aid. Case in point, they need to infiltrate Hydra or need to put someone in a dangerous spot undercover. Ward can easily fill that role since he will be known within Hydra as Garrett's right hand man.

That's not redemption though. That's just figuring out a reason to use Ward in a story.

[kalorama]

He didnt betray anyone, he was sent to do a mission which he completed flawlessly.

(A) Of course he betrayed them. He earned their trust and then used it against them, to hurt them. That's betrayal by definition. The fact that he earned their trust by lying to them is irrelevant. They thought he was their friend right up until he stabbed them in the back. And the fact that he's admitted after the fact, to both Skye and Fitzsimmons, that he developed feelings for them only underscores that. But, really, it doesn't matter what Ward was or what Ward thought he was or what he felt.. The only thing that matters is what they thought he was and how they feel about what he did. That, and that alone, will determine whether they ever take another chance on him.

(B) But even if they did take that view . . . it still does nothing to further the argument that there's any chance of them ever trusting him again. Just the opposite.

[kalorama]

Yeah this is like saying an undercover cop betrayed a drug lord when the reality is that he was never loyal to said drug lord in the first place. What Ward did was obviously a shitty thing to do but he was never loyal to SHIELD in the first place and was simply feigning loyalty in order to use it against them.

And, in that scenario, what are the odds that said drug lord would trust that cop if he came to him later and said that he wanted to change sides and join his crew for real?

[gwangung]

(A) Of course he betrayed them. He earned their trust and then used it against them, to hurt them. That's betrayal by definition. The fact that he earned their trust by lying to them is irrelevant. They thought he was their friend right up until he stabbed them in the back. And the fact that he's admitted after the fact, to both Skye and Fitzsimmons, that he developed feelings for them only underscores that. But, really, it doesn't matter what Ward was or what Ward thought he was or what he felt.. The only thing that matters is what they thought he was and how they feel about what he did. That, and that alone, will determine whether they ever take another chance on him.

(B) But even if they did take that view . . . it still does nothing to further the argument that there's any chance of them ever trusting him again. Just the opposite.

Exactly. Precisely. They can't and shouldn't.

Which makes him a perfect cast member for the 2nd season.

(And note that I said "cast" and not "team").

[kalorama]

And really, I think the point is that Ward was more loyal to Garret than Hydra in general. If Ward is dead, I doubt he'd have much incentive to work against SHIELD. Not that I think SHIELD has any reason to assume that... but that's what I believe at least.

That's only the point from Ward's perspective. From SHIELD's (and, more specifically, Coulson and company's) perspective, whether he was a true Hydra believer or Garrett's personal lap dog is utterly irrelevant.

Exactly. Precisely. They can't and shouldn't.

Which makes him a perfect cast member for the 2nd season.

(And note that I said "cast" and not "team").

Oh, I have no doubt he'll be part of the cast in season 2.

[Sighphi]

(A) Of course he betrayed them. He earned their trust and then used it against them, to hurt them. That's betrayal by definition. The fact that he earned their trust by lying to them is irrelevant. They thought he was their friend right up until he stabbed them in the back. And the fact that he's admitted after the fact, to both Skye and Fitzsimmons, that he developed feelings for them only underscores that. But, really, it doesn't matter what Ward was or what Ward thought he was or what he felt.. The only thing that matters is what they thought he was and how they feel about what he did. That, and that alone, will determine whether they ever take another chance on him.

(B) But even if they did take that view . . . it still does nothing to further the argument that there's any chance of them ever trusting him again. Just the opposite.

A- He did nothing but be assigned to that group by Mai. If they wanted to be friends and it ended up not being true is their problem.

B- They know he does his job. They dont have to trust him, all they need to do is that he is going to do his job. This is a spy show... this happens constantly in these shows. If this show is going to be all about friendship it will be the suckiest spy show ever.

[Zero Hunter]

A- He did nothing but be assigned to that group by Mai. If they wanted to be friends and it ended up not being true is their problem.

B- They know he does his job. They dont have to trust him, all they need to do is that he is going to do his job. This is a spy show... this happens constantly in these shows. If this show is going to be all about friendship it will be the suckiest spy show ever.

This is just insane logic. They know that they can not trust the guy but should still just work with him because he gets the job done?!? And if he decides to betray them again down the line oh well he get the job done. He was playing them the entire time he was with them and they all know that now. No sane person would trust him let alone work with him again just because he is good at his job, and he wasn't even that good at that since Mai kicked his ass all over the place.

Plus all this 'well the Black Widow did bad things too" arguement is just as stupid. For one we don't actully know what she did in her past unlike Ward who we have seen ever bad thing he did and all the people he killed since Hydra was outed, and she has been working with SHIELD and the Avengers to make up for whatever it was she did do that she feels she needs to make up for. Ward the minute he was outed had no problem just killing whoever got in his way and making sure some pretty dangerous stuff got into the hands of some pretty bad people.

How some of you can not see the difference is just baffling to anyone with common sense.

[XPac]

That's only the point from Ward's perspective. From SHIELD's (and, more specifically, Coulson and company's) perspective, whether he was a true Hydra believer or Garrett's personal lap dog is utterly irrelevant.



Oh, I have no doubt he'll be part of the cast in season 2.

At this point I would agree. SHIELD has no reason to believe that Ward isn't loyal to Hydra. But that's not to say down the line events won't allow Ward to prove otherwise.

Really, I suspect that will end up being the story of this particular character. That will be his character arc as the show goes on.

[PretenderNX01]

A- He did nothing but be assigned to that group by Mai. If they wanted to be friends and it ended up not being true is their problem.

He tried to kill them. Several times and individually.

[Sighphi]

This is just insane logic. They know that they can not trust the guy but should still just work with him because he gets the job done?!? And if he decides to betray them again down the line oh well he get the job done. He was playing them the entire time he was with them and they all know that now. No sane person would trust him let alone work with him again just because he is good at his job, and he wasn't even that good at that since Mai kicked his ass all over the place.

Plus all this 'well the Black Widow did bad things too" arguement is just as stupid. For one we don't actully know what she did in her past unlike Ward who we have seen ever bad thing he did and all the people he killed since Hydra was outed, and she has been working with SHIELD and the Avengers to make up for whatever it was she did do that she feels she needs to make up for. Ward the minute he was outed had no problem just killing whoever got in his way and making sure some pretty dangerous stuff got into the hands of some pretty bad people.

How some of you can not see the difference is just baffling to anyone with common sense.

This is spy show logic, man.
Stuff like this even happened in real life, double agents actually got turned and where used by the people they were spying on.
Are you saying that you never heard anything like this before?

On top of all of that this show already setup the dude turning by Garrett going nutty and Ward having a problem with it and the dude being turned into some sort robot following instructions.

Plus it's highly unlikely that the character is not going to be used again given how vanilla this show is.

[Deadxman]

He tried to kill them. Several times and individually.

[tjarvis]

I don't want to see Ward as a regular part of the team (at least for a while), but I don't want to see him as a full on villain either. It doesn't fit him.

Someone who is an ally sometimes and an enemy at others, who's pretty much stranded in the gray, that suits him. After all, we need to figure out just what it is he really does want. Then he can begin his redemption arc (and yes, redemption is possible for him. Narratively it's not that hard a process to pull off). We also still need to learn who his family is. At this point all we know is that they're connected.

I like the idea of Flowers looking for the Terragin Mist, and that her and Skye are inhumans. Exposure to the mist will change them both, and I'm guessing that is the central plot line for next season.

[pro]

For one we don't actully know what she did in her past

So why assume that she hasn't been at cross-purpose with SHIELD in the past? Killed agents? Stole secrets? They picked her up after she did "bad things in her past", Hawkeye who's with SHIELD vouched for her so doesn't it stand to reason she was on the opposing side prior to that? She's a highly trained assassin. What bad thing do you think she did in her past? Stole Fury's ice-cream?

she has been working with SHIELD and the Avengers to make up for whatever it was she did do that she feels she needs to make up for.

And as you mentioned yourself we've seen none of her redemption arc. Clearly by the time of the movies she has made up for it because they do rely on her.
So why assume it has not been as arduous a process prior to the movies as Ward might have to go through before he is redeemed?

Your argument is essentially the same as the opposite side makes: we simply don't know enough about Black Widow's past to compare it to Ward's.

How some of you can not see the difference is just baffling to anyone with common sense.

"everyone who doesn't share my opinion is stupid!". You might want to tone it down a little because your arguments aren't as strong as you think they are.